1
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
-------------------------------------------x
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
4 Plaintiff,
90 CIV 5722
5 -against- (CSH)
6 DISTRICT COUNCIL OF NEW YORK CITY
AND VICINITY OF THE UNITED
7 BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND
JOINTS OF AMERICA, et al.
8
Defendants.
9 -------------------------------------------x
10 Independent Investigator Interview
11
12 INTERVIEW OF PAUL WILLOUGHBY, a
13 witness herein, taken by the Plaintiff, at
14 the offices of Doar, Rieck & Mack, Esqs.,
15 217 Broadway, New York, New York, on Monday,
16 August 22, 2005, at 3:00 o'clock p.m., before
17 Steven Klein, a Certified Shorthand Reporter
18 and Notary Public of the State of New York.
19
20
21
22
23 TANKOOS REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
305 Madison Avenue 142 Willis Avenue
24 Suite 449 P.O. Box 347
New York, N.Y. 10165 Mineola, N.Y. 11501
25 (212)349-9692 (516)741-5235
2
1
A P P E A R A N C E S:
2
3 DOER, RIECK & MACK, ESQS.
Attorneys for Plaintiff
4 217 Broadway - 7th Floor
New York, New York 10007
5
BY: WALTER MACK, ESQ.
6 Independent Investigator
7
KOEHLER & ISAACS, LLP
8 Attorneys for the Witness
61 Broadway
9 New York, New York 10006
10 BY: STEVEN ISAACS, ESQ.
11
12 O'DWYER & BERNSTEIN, ESQS.
Attorneys for District Council
13 52 Duane Street
New York, New York 10007
14
BY: GARY SILVERMAN, ESQ.
15
16 WILLIAM P. CALLAHAN, ESQ.
17 Battery Place
17 New York, New York 10004
18
ED SCARVALONE, ESQ.
19 Assistant United States Attorney
20
21 ALSO PRESENT:
22 DICK ROTH
DON SOBOCIENSKI, Investigator
23
24
* * *
25
3
1
2 MR. MACK: On the record.
3 I know you will be happy that I'm
4 not going to go through all the warnings
5 and everything else we did before.
6 The most important thing is that
7 you're still under oath, and you don't
8 have to have the oath readministered to
9 you.
10 I want to make sure, unless your
11 counsel wants me to have the oath
12 readministered.
13 MR. ISAACS: No, we are ready to
14 roll.
15 EXAMINATION BY
16 MR. MACK:
17 Q I appreciate you coming back in
18 such short time, because I think Mr. Isaacs
19 is heading off for a few days.
20 MR. MACK: Is that a fair
21 statement?
22 MR. ISAACS: A couple of days.
23 Q I'm going to try to move and get
24 this done quickly, so you can watch over your
25 family.
4
1 Willoughby
2 A Thank you.
3 Q Question number one is, after
4 being here last week, and having testified
5 about a number of topics, is there anything
6 that you said and testified to last week that
7 you would like to alter, or amend, or modify
8 in any way before we begin today?
9 A No.
10 Q Fine.
11 I'll ask you that again at the
12 end of today's session.
13 And recognizing, as I say to
14 every witness, that should you, sometime in
15 the future, remember something that was asked
16 of you today, or last week, that you should
17 notify Steve to that effect, Mr. Isaacs, so
18 that he can change, have the record altered.
19 There have been a number of cases
20 where carpenters have testified, and then, as
21 fate would have it, they have recognized, or
22 they have been given a warning by me, that I
23 thought they committed perjury. On some
24 occasions they come in, and other occasions
25 they don't.
5
1 Willoughby
2 My feeling is that I'm not
3 promising to provide notices, one way I don't
4 have any obligation to do that, but I would
5 urge you, if there is anything that you feel
6 may be inaccurate at any time, simply ensure
7 that your counsel knows that, so that the
8 record can be changed.
9 Eventually --
10 MR. ISAACS: There is one thing.
11 He and I talked about whether or not he
12 thought there was a proffer.
13 MR. MACK: Yes.
14 MR. ISAACS: We went through it,
15 and he does not, upon thinking about it,
16 remember there being any Court Reporter
17 in attendance when he spoke with the DOL
18 and the Attorney General, which wouldn't
19 surprise me, because in my practice, I
20 rarely have had a prosecutor have a
21 proffer where it is being recorded by a
22 stenographer.
23 MR. MACK: Yes.
24 MR. ISAACS: We tried to reach
25 Mr. Dowd, but have been unable to do so.
6
1 Willoughby
2 If that changes, I will be in
3 touch with you.
4 Thinking about it, and sitting
5 with me and thinking about who was in
6 the room, he does not remember there
7 being any Court Reporter in there.
8 MR. MACK: I would be surprised
9 if there were a Court Reporter.
10 THE WITNESS: I made a full and
11 complete statement to Jack Mitchell, to
12 try to get it to you.
13 BY MR. MACK:
14 Q Good.
15 What I will do is we will leave
16 that issue along with your promising to
17 provide me copies of all your training
18 records, certificates.
19 A Yes.
20 Q And whether it's Mike Dowd's
21 notes, whatever it, whatever constituted the
22 proffer, I think it would be important to
23 ensure that if you wish to have me consider
24 it, it would only be logical to think that
25 your recollection would be better in 2001 and
7
1 Willoughby
2 2002, and talking to the Organized Task
3 Force, than it would be today.
4 I would always like the best
5 evidence, the recollection of those events.
6 A I talked to Steve, and I made a
7 complete and honest statement there, and I
8 don't want anything to contradict, like we
9 had last time, a little contradiction we had.
10 Q Yes.
11 A I don't want any contradictions.
12 Q You and I share that view.
13 I want you to feel comfortable.
14 Only through your counsel, I don't want you
15 calling me up on this point, or calling Don
16 up. I know --
17 A I called Don in the past.
18 Q I understand that.
19 Now that you are represented by
20 counsel on these issues.
21 A Yes.
22 Q Some other issue comes up, you
23 call him up, if it had nothing to do with
24 what we are talking about, and have, in these
25 two statements that you have given me, you
8
1 Willoughby
2 have, as any other carpenter, have a right to
3 call me.
4 One of the things that I would
5 ask you to do, as I ask every carpenter, if
6 wrongdoing or something occurs in your
7 presence that is not responded to
8 appropriately by the union, or you feel that
9 I should know about it, or Mr. Callahan
10 should know about it, that my view is that
11 they should call.
12 We have many carpenters coming in
13 here now, it has nothing to do with you, who
14 basically admit to being paid cash for years,
15 years.
16 Basically, they say, "There is
17 nothing I can do, Mr. Mack."
18 I say, "You could have called me
19 up, don't give me your name, but say if you
20 go to this job at this time, you will find
21 that instead of there being carpenters who
22 are on the sheet, you will find no
23 carpenters."
24 That is what happened at various
25 jobs.
9
1 Willoughby
2 My feeling is, any loyal union
3 member who wants to have a contract hold
4 accountable, you just may have to call the
5 hot line.
6 You have it within your own power
7 to see that wrongdoing does not occur on a
8 job site for the carpenters.
9 A All right.
10 Q Just to reiterate, I'm more than
11 welcome for any type of evidence that
12 concerns Mr. Willoughby's proffer to the AG
13 or the OCTF back after his arrest.
14 It is up to you guys to get it to
15 me one way or the other.
16 A I'll try.
17 Q In addition to that, I'm
18 interested in all your certificates, and I
19 understand that you are either moving --
20 A Moving. We are redoing the
21 kitchen.
22 Q Redoing the kitchen.
23 When you get that squared away, I
24 ask that those certificates be sent to us?
25 A Yes.
10
1 Willoughby
2 Q Fair enough?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Any other issues that we should
5 deal with?
6 We are going to proceed without
7 the Government, and without the District
8 Council today.
9 They had notice of this. We are
10 past a quarter after, the fifteen minutes I
11 give them.
12 Basically, as you know, Mr. Roth
13 and Mr. Callahan, they represent the II team
14 that will succeed me and Mr. Sobocienski at
15 any moment.
16 Basically, they are here as my
17 guests.
18 We don't have to go through all
19 that, but we are here to ask questions, or
20 ask for clarification.
21 I would like to pick up
22 chronologically where we were last time.
23 I think what I would like to ask
24 you is -- and I think I have the right street
25 now -- on your A&M Wallboard job on 47th
11
1 Willoughby
2 Street, how long were you on that job site?
3 A I think a year, a
4 year-and-a-half. I'm not sure.
5 I'm trying to answer, but I'm not
6 sure.
7 Q I understand.
8 A I just don't want to say that I
9 don't know.
10 Q Basically, I want to make sure
11 that I at least make available Mr. Silverman.
12 MR. MACK: Mr. Silverman, welcome
13 aboard here.
14 Forgive us for starting, but your
15 secretary called us and said that we had
16 permission to do so.
17 MR. SILVERMAN: Yes.
18 Thank you.
19 MR. MACK: We have done just a
20 few housekeeping things, and Mr.
21 Willoughby is not altering anything he
22 said the last time, and he knows he is
23 under oath, and he will provide us with
24 his certificates when his kitchen is
25 completed.
12
1 Willoughby
2 They have not been able to --
3 here is our other guest, Mr. Scarvalone.
4 Let me just, for the benefit of
5 our witness, just indicate who has just
6 joined us.
7 Obviously, you know Gary
8 Silverman, who is from the firm of
9 O'Dwyer & Bernstein, who was present
10 last week, when you testified.
11 And he is here in the same
12 capacity as he was last week, as my
13 guest, with a right to ask any
14 questions, if he wishes to do so.
15 In replacement for Ben Torrance,
16 who was the Assistant U.S. Attorney from
17 the civil attorney who was here last
18 week, Ed Scarvalone has just joined us
19 and is substituting for Ben today.
20 He also is a guest of mine, with
21 the same rights to participate as he
22 wishes in the testimony.
23 THE WITNESS: Right.
24 Q Basically, my plan is to go
25 somewhere around two hours today, and be
13
1 Willoughby
2 done. That is my hope.
3 I warned Mr. Isaacs it could go
4 over a little bit, because I don't know what
5 the answers will be.
6 I will do my best to get you out
7 of here, so you are not too late for your
8 responsibilities at home.
9 A Thank you.
10 Q Where we sit at the moment is my
11 effort to get some idea of how long you were
12 on this A&M Wallboard job, on 47th Street and
13 First Avenue, and what tools that I have, and
14 it doesn't mean that they are of any
15 significance, but this may help you in
16 remembering, is that you were originally
17 dispatched to that site on August 31, 1999,
18 and I have recorded benefits for you from A&M
19 Wallboard from that date through, although
20 there are some weeks missing, June 25, 2002.
21 That's a very long period.
22 A Yes.
23 Q I want you to help me understand
24 what jobs you were on for A&M Wallboard.
25 I do have, which I'll provide to
14
1 Willoughby
2 you, is a record of a shape that you did to
3 an A&M Wallboard site, but it's not clear to
4 me where it is.
5 Other than having a very long,
6 shall we say, a very successful opportunity,
7 let me hand that out, see if this is of any
8 value. It has been marked as PWL 9.
9 Let me give you a copy of that.
10 MR. MACK: Mr. Silverman, a copy
11 for you?
12 MR. SILVERMAN: Yes.
13 MR. MACK: Mr. Scarvalone, Mr.
14 Callahan and team.
15 Q That reflects a job, a shape, but
16 I'm not sure where in Queens it is.
17 The question is --
18 A This is the Queens Courthouse.
19 Q The Queens Courthouse?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Now, what courthouse is that?
22 Is that the Supreme Court building?
23 A I don't know which one. I just
24 remember it was a courthouse, Jamaica Avenue.
25 Q All right.
15
1 Willoughby
2 The question is, given the
3 dispatch which we were talking about -- I'm
4 not going to go over that again -- we went
5 through that with the skills, and all that
6 stuff, we will not revisit that today, but
7 the question is, how long were you on the
8 47th Street job.
9 And then how were you successful
10 in, it must have been at other A&M sites
11 which have the benefit records which I say
12 run for almost two years, three years, two
13 years and ten months.
14 So I'm not being unfair to you,
15 notwithstanding that long run you were on the
16 out of work list on a variety of times.
17 The question naturally arises
18 when you went on the out of work list, and
19 I'm just really reading from a digest going
20 through the out of job history that you have.
21 A That's when the benefits
22 overlapped.
23 Q My feeling is this. That is your
24 recollection, that the benefits overlapped.
25 The question is, did it overlap
16
1 Willoughby
2 all that time?
3 The job referral history as such
4 is PWL 20, for those who are following along.
5 I will tell you during that
6 period that ends in June, I have you added to
7 the out of work list on December 17, 2001.
8 I have you added on January 21,
9 2002; January 31, 2002; April 15, 2002; and
10 June 14, 2002.
11 So the question -- and I'm not
12 going to go through each one of them, out of
13 respect for the time here of everybody
14 sitting around -- but it certainly raises the
15 question, given the benefit history, whether
16 on any of those occasions you were working
17 for A&M, and second of all, of course, if you
18 could just give me an idea of the job you
19 were on for A&M that justified that benefit
20 record.
21 If you can remember.
22 The ones we know about is, and I
23 want to talk about the Queens Courthouse,
24 that shape was on December 20, 2001, as shown
25 by PWL 9.
17
1 Willoughby
2 So why don't you do the best you
3 can, Mr. Willoughby, on giving me an idea of
4 what your job attendance was for A&M
5 Wallboard. Was it just those two jobs, the
6 one at 47th and First, and then the Queens
7 Courthouse?
8 Were there any others involved?
9 Give it some thought.
10 I'm not trying to rush you.
11 A That's why I'm looking at it.
12 Q Take your time.
13 Let me know when you are ready to
14 answer that question.
15 A I don't remember. I don't
16 recall.
17 Q All right.
18 Let me ask this question. We
19 have a record of your being on two A&M job
20 sites; all right?
21 A Yes.
22 Q One is the 47th Street job, First
23 Avenue, that we talked about. I'm not going
24 to go back over that. We spent enough time
25 on that dispatch.
18
1 Willoughby
2 A Right.
3 Q Do you have a recollection of
4 when you left that job?
5 A No, not really.
6 Q Do you have a recollection of
7 approximately how many months you worked on
8 that job?
9 A The 47th Street job?
10 Q Yes.
11 A I know at least a year. I'm not
12 sure.
13 Q Okay. One thing that may be of
14 value to us is PWL 9, which shows you shaping
15 to Queens.
16 A Right.
17 Q Not particularly a descriptive
18 phrase, a reasonably large borough, on
19 December 20, 2001.
20 A Right.
21 Q Do you believe you were on 47th
22 Street all the way from August, '99, to
23 December, 2001? That is over two years.
24 A It could be. I'm not sure.
25 It was a ninety-story building.
19
1 Willoughby
2 Q Say it again?
3 A It was a ninety-story building.
4 Q 42nd Street?
5 A Yes, it was a big building.
6 Q You were the shop steward?
7 A On the 47th Street job, yes.
8 Q Can you give me an estimate;
9 could you have been there two years, instead
10 of one?
11 A It could have been a
12 year-and-a-half. I'm not sure.
13 My steward report would reflect
14 my last date there.
15 Q Right.
16 Maybe I need to get that.
17 A Yes, I don't have it.
18 Q And the Queens job, just to try
19 to give you some idea, when you say the
20 courthouse, what stage of the job was it when
21 you arrived at the Queens Courthouse?
22 A Just started.
23 Q Just started?
24 A Yes.
25 Q You shaped that job as a
20
1 Willoughby
2 journeyman?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Were you a journeyman the entire
5 time you were on that courthouse job?
6 A Sure.
7 Q Nothing wrong with that.
8 A Yes.
9 Q I didn't know whether or not you
10 had become a foreman or shop steward.
11 A I was there in the capacity as a
12 foreman.
13 Q So the Queens Courthouse, can you
14 give me an idea of a description, if you can,
15 if you can, anything about the courthouse
16 project?
17 I think I know what it is. I
18 would be interested if you can tell me.
19 A Just drywall ceiling job,
20 sheetrock sealing, soffits.
21 Q Would it be fair to say that you
22 would have been listed as the foreman on the
23 shop steward reports for that job?
24 I just don't have them. If I had
25 them, I would show them to you.
21
1 Willoughby
2 A I'm not sure who was the foreman.
3 I was like a deputy foreman.
4 Q Now maybe I could ask you this.
5 On that job, who was responsible for keeping
6 the hours on that job, the Queens Courthouse
7 job?
8 A It wasn't me.
9 Q Do you recall the shop steward at
10 that job?
11 A No, I don't recall.
12 Q Was there a shop steward on the
13 job?
14 A Yes, I believe his name was
15 Tommy. I'm not sure of his last name.
16 Q I asked this question --
17 A I wouldn't work on a job without
18 a shop steward.
19 Q Okay.
20 A Just for the record.
21 Q Good.
22 A If I went on a job site, and
23 there was no steward, I would call.
24 Being a company guy, I would not
25 work on a job without a shop steward.
22
1 Willoughby
2 Q I wish all your brothers felt the
3 same way about the situation. No question
4 about it.
5 So in terms of your duties on the
6 Queens Courthouse, how would you describe
7 them? Were you the deputy foreman? Is that
8 what you told me, assistant foreman,
9 something like that?
10 A Assistant foreman, I guess.
11 Q All right.
12 Were there any areas assigned to
13 you by A&M?
14 A Mostly the unloading, I guess.
15 Q As far as you know, were your
16 hours on that job accurately recorded by the
17 shop steward?
18 A I don't know.
19 Q Did you ever sign a shop steward
20 report, as the employer's representative?
21 A I don't think so.
22 Q And if I saw, because I can tell
23 from the benefits here, most weeks you were
24 there, were you on that job for the hours
25 that were reported for you, or were there
23
1 Willoughby
2 times when you were paid for days that you
3 were not there?
4 A If I took a day off, you know, I
5 was probably paid for a day off.
6 Q Was there ever a time when a
7 person at A&M said, "I'm not paying you for a
8 day that you were not there"?
9 A I don't know.
10 Q To your knowledge. You would
11 know when you weren't paid?
12 A It was a couple of years ago.
13 Q I know.
14 I'm trying to find out.
15 Even if you weren't on the job,
16 did you expect to be paid by A&M Wallboard
17 for your time?
18 A If I was a foreman, yes.
19 Q Or a shop steward?
20 A Or a shop steward.
21 Q I say that because you were a
22 shop steward.
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. And is it unlikely that
25 I'm going to find -- and you may not know the
24
1 Willoughby
2 answer to this question -- any type of
3 attendance sheet which would allow me to
4 figure out what days you were on the job,
5 what days you were off the job?
6 A I don't know.
7 Q As far as you know, let's say on
8 the courthouse job, was there a sign-in sheet
9 when you walked in in the morning, someone
10 noted that you were there?
11 You may not know.
12 A I don't know.
13 Q You don't know?
14 A You will have to go back to their
15 records.
16 Q Now, during this time period, as
17 I say -- and I don't want to imply, because
18 you have the same benefit records that I
19 have, but if you go through them, you will
20 see they are pretty much unbroken from
21 August, '99 to June, '02. There are a couple
22 of exceptions.
23 I don't want your attorney to be
24 upset with me. Sometimes it's a little over,
25 but on the whole, it's pretty complete week
25
1 Willoughby
2 after week after week.
3 Now, there were some times that
4 you went back on the out of work list. I
5 want to ask you about some of those
6 situations.
7 Do you have any recollection, the
8 first one I mentioned was in December, 2001,
9 and then there is one in January, 2002;
10 January 21st; January 31st, and April 15th.
11 Your benefit history, at least
12 appears to me, with one exception, which you
13 can find yourself, that basically you were
14 getting benefits during that time period.
15 Do you have a recollection of
16 being out of work at all during that period?
17 That is running from the end of
18 2001 until the first six months of 2002.
19 A Like I say, that is the
20 overlapping of the benefits.
21 I answered these questions at the
22 council.
23 MR. MACK: Okay. As far as I
24 know -- and Gary, you can set me
25 straight -- I haven't been able to
26
1 Willoughby
2 secure any investigative work product,
3 I'm not saying it wasn't requested, I'm
4 not saying it wasn't there, that the
5 council may have done to assist me on
6 that.
7 I don't know if you have any
8 knowledge about that.
9 MR. SILVERMAN: I can't say.
10 THE WITNESS: On the out of work
11 list violations, I think there were six,
12 six or seven of them.
13 Q Ten?
14 A Was it ten?
15 Q It's a lot.
16 A Yes.
17 Q In any event, where we left it --
18 A They overlap. I think that's
19 what they've come up with. I'm not sure.
20 I haven't heard from them.
21 Q Where we left it last time was
22 you were charged, you went to a trial, and
23 you challenged the accuracy of the records?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And you have heard nothing since?
27
1 Willoughby
2 A Exactly.
3 Q Is that a fair assessment?
4 A Yes, that's correct.
5 Q So basically, what you are at
6 least saying may be true, I don't want to
7 overstate it, is that A&M Wallboard, their
8 attendance records, or their pension records,
9 may be inaccurate in terms of their
10 reporting?
11 A Yes.
12 Q All right.
13 Now, let me ask you a couple of
14 my favorite type of questions here, one way
15 or the other.
16 And I don't mean to pry into your
17 personal life, but forgive me, just so that I
18 understand, there are a number of phone
19 changes that you do from time to time?
20 A Yes.
21 Q I just want to ask you these
22 questions when the number comes up, so that I
23 have some idea what number it is. Okay?
24 A Yes.
25 Q At one point, to be precise, July
28
1 Willoughby
2 1, 2002 -- and once I get these numbers I
3 won't bother you again -- you went from 718
4 376-5573. That is your home?
5 A Yes.
6 Q To 917 335-4922.
7 A That was my cell phone.
8 Q You think that is your cell
9 phone?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Those are the same numbers?
12 A It went back and forth. It
13 doesn't mean I used the cell phone when I
14 wasn't in the house. I used the house phone
15 as my phone, because the service was bad in
16 the house.
17 Q The cell phone service?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Is it a fair indicator that when
20 you are shifting to the 718 number, that you
21 are not working, you are at home?
22 A Yes. I'm in the house.
23 Q You are in the house?
24 A Yes.
25 Q When it goes to the 917 number --
29
1 Willoughby
2 A I'm outside the house.
3 Q -- you are outside the house
4 somewhere with your cell phone?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Now, and this may mean nothing
7 here, but on July 18, 2002, you added a skill
8 of protection. You deleted the skill of
9 hardware.
10 It's on July 18th, if you want to
11 follow along with me.
12 A Yes.
13 Q You added the skill of protection
14 on July 18, 2002, as well as changing your
15 number from your cell phone to home.
16 The only reason I mention it is
17 July, 2002, was there any particular reason
18 that you can recall why you were making those
19 changes on that date or approximate date,
20 that date, July 18, 2002?
21 Feel comfortable in looking at
22 the exhibit, PWL 20, just to make sure I'm
23 right.
24 A Yes.
25 Q Let me reiterate what I said to
30
1 Willoughby
2 you last time.
3 Any time that you would like to
4 leave the room and talk with Steve, all you
5 have to do is walk outside to do that. Tell
6 me you want to take a break.
7 I just didn't reiterate that.
8 You still have that same privilege.
9 Do you understand the pending
10 question is do you have any recollection what
11 you had in mind, or what was the purpose on
12 July 18, 2002, with making those changes,
13 removing hardware, adding protection?
14 A No, I don't recall why.
15 Q Now, your benefit history, of
16 course -- not of course -- but reflects you
17 were not working in July, 2002. All right.
18 So that is consistent with your
19 phone change.
20 Any particular reason why you
21 would have deleted hardware?
22 You are a person who makes a
23 point of training and adding your skills.
24 Any idea why you would have deleted hardware?
25 A No idea.
31
1 Willoughby
2 Q All right.
3 What about protection, because
4 protection is something, a skill you
5 certainly have had for all your career,
6 probably, right?
7 A Probably.
8 If it wasn't there -- I recall,
9 when they asked what my skills were, if
10 protection weren't on, I would add it.
11 Q Okay.
12 A That's the only thing I can think
13 of.
14 Q Let's go through the month of
15 July here.
16 You were bypassed July 24th?
17 A Right.
18 Q They were not able to reach you
19 on July 26th.
20 On July 29th, you changed your
21 phone back to your cell phone.
22 You with me?
23 A I'm with you.
24 Q Unable to reach you on the 30th,
25 and then on the 31st, you were dispatched to
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2 a job at 14 Wall Street.
3 Just to check up on me here, you
4 have an exhibit that has your dispatches.
5 That is PWL 21.
6 You can follow along with me.
7 A Okay.
8 Q Twelfth floor, 14 Wall, is what
9 the dispatch shows.
10 You received no benefits, so my
11 question is, what happened on that job; why
12 didn't you take that job?
13 A My knowledge of that area, I
14 probably couldn't get in the building.
15 11 Wall, 14 Wall, you can't get
16 in that building. There was probably no job
17 for me.
18 Q Does that happen a lot?
19 A Yes, it happens a whole lot.
20 Q Is that security?
21 A Yes, the stock market.
22 Q The Exchange?
23 A Yes.
24 You try to get in 14 Wall, you
25 show your ID, carpenter, they won't let you
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2 in.
3 Q How does construction work get
4 done at the Stock Exchange?
5 A You have to go through the
6 building manager or something.
7 Q You never actually got in the
8 building; is that your recollection?
9 A Yes, that's my recollection.
10 Q You are back on the out of work
11 list on August 1st.
12 Then you are dispatched on August
13 2nd to a TriBuilt job at Hunter College.
14 Again, there are no benefits from
15 TriBuilt.
16 Again, my question is to you,
17 what happened there? Did you get to that
18 job, did you turn that job down?
19 A There was no job there.
20 I think that's the job that I
21 went down, and it was over, it was done.
22 Q Did you go to Hunter there? FDR
23 and 25th Street appears to be where it was.
24 A Yes, but I didn't work there.
25 Q Do you remember what happened
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2 there? Did you go and couldn't find the job?
3 Did you go and not want to take
4 the job?
5 If you remember.
6 A I went there, and there was no
7 one on the job at the time. There was no one
8 to receive me.
9 Q The next one we will spend a
10 little time on here. That deals with your
11 next dispatch on August 5, 2002.
12 If you look at your job referral
13 history -- and these are some of my -- I'm
14 always interested in these type of materials
15 or situations -- so the TriBuilt, job you are
16 telling me it didn't exist?
17 A Right. There was no one there, I
18 couldn't find anyone.
19 Q August 5th -- and you remember
20 the time we talked about is three hours
21 earlier than this?
22 A Yes.
23 Q 8:01 a.m., you are back on the
24 out of work list.
25 You are getting credit for the
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2 one day that you went, or at least for one
3 day at TriBuilt?
4 A They do that because you were
5 dispatched.
6 Q Right.
7 A Once you get the eleven days, you
8 have to prove that you didn't work those two
9 or three days, whatever those days were.
10 Q You can ask for an eleven-day
11 investigation?
12 A Right.
13 Q And they are just showing the
14 computing system hitting you with the day?
15 A The computer hits you with that.
16 Q Moving along, at 8:05, you added
17 the skill of concrete. You changed your
18 phone number from a cell phone to home.
19 Later, that was actually at 1:12 p.m.
20 Do you see that where I'm looking
21 at? I'm just going down to 8/5/02.
22 A Yes.
23 Q Now, the first question, were you
24 in contact with anyone?
25 Why did you decide to put your
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2 concrete skill on that day, at that time?
3 A The only thing I can say is I
4 probably heard about a concrete job.
5 Q Okay. Did you?
6 A I'm not sure.
7 If I didn't have it on there, and
8 there was probably concrete going on in the
9 city, I said why don't I have it.
10 Q What I'm asking you to do, as
11 best you can, is try to remember what had
12 happened that resulted in your adding that
13 skill on that day.
14 Did someone talk to you? Was
15 there a concrete job?
16 Obviously, you are dispatched to
17 a concrete job that very day.
18 That is why I'm trying to figure
19 out -- and you can look at the dispatch, it's
20 not a secret here.
21 A Yes, I see it.
22 Q It's the old Alexander Building.
23 You are dispatched three hours later, a
24 little bit more than three hours later, to a
25 great job.
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2 A Yes.
3 Q A job that lasts a long, long
4 time.
5 A Yes.
6 Q What I'm asking you to push your
7 memory in is what were the circumstances.
8 If you didn't have that skill, if
9 you hadn't added that skill that day, you
10 would not have gotten that job?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What I'm trying to do is figure
13 out, ask you to explain to me what happened
14 there that caused you to put concrete on your
15 skill set that day.
16 A I probably heard about a concrete
17 job that was coming out of the ground, and I
18 didn't have it on, so I added it.
19 Q "Probablies" and "possibilies," I
20 can deal with that.
21 First, was there some talk?
22 This was a very well-known job?
23 A Yes, it had holes in the grounds
24 forever.
25 Q That is one that I knew about,
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2 and I had nothing to do with the carpenters
3 at that time. I'm not challenging that.
4 Basically, what was it that
5 caused you, to the best of your recollection,
6 to add concrete on the day of the dispatch?
7 A Like I said, I probably heard
8 about the concrete job that was coming out of
9 the ground.
10 Q I want you to do better than
11 that, if you can.
12 Was there any discussion with any
13 human being that said, "There is going to be
14 a dispatch of the Alexander hole in the
15 ground job today, Paul. You better put
16 concrete on your" --
17 A I understand what you're saying.
18 Q Did that conversation, or
19 something like that, occur?
20 A I probably overheard something in
21 the hall. I'm in the hall when I'm not at
22 work. I probably overheard someone talking
23 about a concrete job.
24 Q Look at the dispatch.
25 This job was dispatched by
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2 Lawrence DeRico on that day. Okay.
3 Did you have a conversation with
4 Lawrence in which -- or any business agent at
5 157 -- "Hey, this job is going to be
6 dispatched today"?
7 That's the question.
8 You think about it.
9 MR. MACK: I don't want to be
10 listening in on your communications.
11 A I don't remember who I heard it
12 from.
13 It was a job that was probably
14 discussed in the hall, and I overheard it.
15 Q The "probablies" and the
16 "possibly," and that may be the best that you
17 can do.
18 A That is the best I can do.
19 Q Did you have any conversation
20 with Lawrence DeRico concerning this job
21 before the dispatch?
22 A No.
23 Q You are sure?
24 A I said I don't think so. You are
25 not accepting that.
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2 Q It's not what I'm accepting.
3 I have a hard time with the
4 coincidences.
5 A I understand.
6 Q All right.
7 A I understand what you're saying.
8 Q My view is that I'm not accusing
9 you of anything, I'm just saying I'm trying
10 to push you as hard as I can as to why the
11 two skills, one skill was added on July 18th,
12 which you did not have, which was protection.
13 A Right.
14 Q The only skills for this job are
15 concrete and protection, plus being a shop
16 steward, on the dispatch.
17 The concrete was added the very
18 day of the dispatch.
19 Being the cynical person that I
20 am --
21 A Coincidence.
22 Q -- it's one of those situations
23 where I say somebody or something must have
24 occasioned you to add concrete on that very
25 day.
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2 A Right.
3 Q I'm trying to find out what it
4 was.
5 A I'm sure I overheard it at the
6 hall, being spoken about it, and I added it.
7 I knew I didn't have concrete,
8 and I added it.
9 Q Were you aware, from, let's say,
10 conversations at the hall, and by that you
11 mean the 157 union hall?
12 A Yes.
13 Q That the job for this, I guess
14 it's called the old Alexander site?
15 A The Bloomberg World Headquarters.
16 Q Was going to be dispatched on
17 that day, that day being August 5, 2002.
18 A I probably heard that it was
19 going to be dispatched soon, that it was
20 coming out, but not on that day, obviously.
21 Q You changed your phone on that
22 day, as well, from your cell to your home.
23 Does that help you remember at all?
24 It's all happening on the day of
25 this dispatch.
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2 A I was probably going to be home
3 that day.
4 Q Okay. I have great respect for
5 your knowledge of the system, and what you
6 need to do, and that's fine.
7 I'm trying to figure out, does
8 that change from your cell phone along with
9 the skill, and then the dispatch, help you at
10 all remember what was happening that day?
11 A No, sir.
12 Q The dispatch itself, if I'm
13 reading it correctly -- and I'll explore
14 it -- that there was a redispatch. It was
15 originally dispatched on the 5th, with a job
16 start August 5th. You can look at it.
17 This is not your writing.
18 Then it appears that nobody
19 showed on the 5th, and it was redispatched on
20 the 6th -- to start the 6th, I should say.
21 A Yes.
22 Q Do you have any recollection that
23 there was a prior dispatch for shop steward
24 on this job that the person didn't show?
25 A No, sir.
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2 Q When you got there, what was the
3 state of the job?
4 A I was just coming out of the
5 ground.
6 Q Had there been a steward there
7 before?
8 A Not to my knowledge, no.
9 Q Had anyone from North Side
10 said -- did anyone from North Side expect
11 you, Paul Willoughby, to be there that day?
12 A I doubt it, no.
13 Q Did you call Lawrence DeRico when
14 you got to the site?
15 A Probably, yes. That's protocol,
16 yes.
17 Q Do you remember doing that? Do
18 you feel you did?
19 A I would say I did.
20 Q Because if I'm reading this
21 correctly, and Mr. Sobocienski agrees, a
22 Friday dispatch for a Monday start, and then
23 a no show on the Monday, and you are
24 dispatched on the Monday for the Tuesday.
25 A Right.
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2 Q Basically, you add your skill on
3 the Monday.
4 In other words, if it had been
5 dispatched as it was dispatched earlier, you
6 wouldn't be eligible?
7 A Yes.
8 Q You change your skill on Monday,
9 and you get the job. That's what it boils
10 down to.
11 That raises questions in my mind
12 as to what happened.
13 A Sure.
14 Q I'm trying to figure out if you
15 can lend any light to what happened there
16 that occasioned that to happen.
17 A I could have been in the hall
18 Monday morning, and there was talk about it,
19 I heard about it, and I added concrete,
20 because I wanted to get a job.
21 Q Is that the best you can do,
22 possibly?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Is that the best of your
25 recollection now?
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2 A Yes.
3 Q That is all I'm entitled to.
4 A Like I said in the past, if my
5 number is close, I sit in the hall, I see
6 what's going on.
7 I'm at home six, seven weeks at a
8 time.
9 Q My feeling is you have been home
10 more recently than you were in the past.
11 You were home in August?
12 A Yes.
13 Q You weren't working in August, or
14 July, anywhere else and not get benefits for.
15 You were home?
16 A Right.
17 Q Is that correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q All right.
20 And as far as there being a
21 dispatch on Friday for Monday start, you
22 can't help me as to who that person was, or
23 what the situation was?
24 A Actually, a guy did show up three
25 days later --
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1 Willoughby
2 Q Right.
3 A -- when I was on the job, looking
4 for the job.
5 Q You're kidding me.
6 A I swear to Christ, three days
7 later.
8 Q Did he have protection and
9 concrete as skills?
10 A I didn't know what his skills
11 were.
12 Like three days later, maybe even
13 more than that, a guy showed up.
14 Q You don't remember who that was?
15 A No, I don't.
16 Q He lost a pretty good job?
17 A He lost a damn good job.
18 Q How long were you on the
19 Alexander job?
20 For quite some time here.
21 What is your memory?
22 You can look at your benefits.
23 I can tell you, it's not a
24 secret.
25 I see you running on North Side
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1 Willoughby
2 Concrete with routine thirty-five plus from
3 August 6, 2002, until April 6, 2004.
4 It's almost -- well, twenty
5 months.
6 A Twenty months.
7 Q A good job?
8 A Fantastic, yes.
9 Q That poor steward who showed up
10 three days later lost a terrific job?
11 A Lost a phenomenal job.
12 Q You were the shop steward for the
13 whole time on that job, correct?
14 A For the concrete for North Side,
15 yes.
16 Q You were on the job all the way,
17 if that's correct -- and I don't have
18 evidence to the contrary. Your memory is
19 more important -- you were on that job until
20 April of 2004?
21 Take a look at the documents.
22 A That was another one of those
23 charges that I had to answer at the council
24 with the overlapping of benefits.
25 Q We will follow that up.
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2 All I'm doing is pointing out
3 what the benefits look like.
4 A I understand.
5 Q I'm asking you basically for your
6 own recollection.
7 How long were you on that job?
8 A That sounds right, yes.
9 Q About twenty months?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And you were the shop steward for
12 that whole time?
13 A Correct.
14 Q And basically, you were the shop
15 steward for North Side concrete?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Now I ask my omnibus question.
18 Were your shop steward reports
19 for that time period accurate for the hours
20 and carpenters on that site?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And were there any people paid on
23 that job, to your knowledge, for days that
24 they were not present?
25 A Not to my knowledge, no.
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1 Willoughby
2 Q That includes yourself.
3 I want to make sure, were there
4 days that you took off?
5 A Sure. Without a doubt,
6 definitely.
7 Q Even for those days -- I don't
8 know if "days" is the right word. Are we
9 talking days or hours here and there? You
10 explain.
11 A Hours here and there. Probably a
12 day off, yes.
13 They paid me for holidays, I
14 remember.
15 Q Right.
16 Is there any record anywhere
17 which would accurately reflect the actual
18 hours that you were on that job site?
19 A "Accurate" meaning the hours that
20 I wasn't there and was paid for?
21 Q Yes.
22 A No.
23 Q Now, I know last time we were
24 talking about your interlude in April, 2001.
25 We won't go back and cover it, the Warwick
50
1 Willoughby
2 Hotel. We have done that enough.
3 But was your understanding of a
4 shop steward's ability to leave a job at will
5 and work, go wherever they want, also
6 applicable here to this North Side job?
7 A You know, I can tell you the
8 company could tell you go home, take half a
9 day.
10 It happens.
11 Am I going to say no?
12 I'm speaking to the company.
13 I'm going to say no, I'm not
14 going to leave?
15 Q There's a side of me, and I'm
16 still trying to figure out what my role is in
17 some respects as I'm about to be terminated,
18 I'm just looking for the facts, I'm not sure
19 what the facts are.
20 A I worked on days where the
21 foreman tells me, "Listen, Paulie, I don't
22 bother shop stewards. Don't worry about it."
23 It happens.
24 "I'm a steward, I have four
25 months here, you are not going to bother me
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2 at all?
3 "No, don't worry about it."
4 Q Is there a job that you have in
5 mind where that occurred?
6 A I'm just saying it happens.
7 I know guys tell you -- it
8 happens.
9 Q Let me argue at least a point,
10 and maybe just because I'm a lawyer, and not
11 a carpenter, if I was a representative of the
12 union, I would say, "Gee, I want my shop
13 steward, Paul Willoughby, on the job, I don't
14 want him off the job just because the
15 contractor wants him off"?
16 A You need half a day, you need to
17 go home, take care of your kids, don't worry
18 about it.
19 Q There is an argument that it's to
20 the benefit of the District Council to have
21 an active, energetic, aggressive shop steward
22 present every hour?
23 A I'm very active and very
24 aggressive.
25 Q When you are not there, you can't
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1 Willoughby
2 be.
3 A Right.
4 Q That's why -- I think we
5 discussed this last time -- that my view of
6 whatever value it is is whenever you take
7 off, there should be a note, took off three
8 hours to visit --
9 A Yes, we went over that last time.
10 Q I will not go over it again.
11 That is my view, and I think the
12 District Council has actually accepted that
13 view.
14 A Yes.
15 Q So they know you are not there.
16 A Yes.
17 I acknowledged that with them all
18 the time.
19 If I was leaving, I would call,
20 and I would tell them, "I'm off the site."
21 Q They have a right to know what is
22 going on in your absence.
23 A Yes.
24 Q We agree on that?
25 A Yes.
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1 Willoughby
2 Q Can you make an estimate of
3 approximately how many days you might not
4 have been on this Alexander site, or hours
5 that you were paid, even though you were not
6 there?
7 A No.
8 Q Were you there, if there is a
9 thirty-five hour week, on a routine basis,
10 how many hours would you, if you can, say
11 that you were there?
12 A It didn't happen every day. I
13 didn't leave early every day.
14 No, that didn't happen.
15 Q Can you come up with an average
16 of how many hours a week you were not
17 available?
18 A No.
19 Q All right.
20 Now, for the benefit of my guests
21 here, there are a couple of times during the
22 course of this time that I see New York CO
23 with a benefit record.
24 You can take a look, for
25 instance, to Section 52 on your exhibit, or
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1 Willoughby
2 my Exhibit PWL 14.
3 There is no big mystery here.
4 I think it would be important --
5 A Is this the same time that I was
6 at --
7 Q Let's see here.
8 I'll point out one for you that's
9 actually --
10 A New York Convention Center.
11 Q Right.
12 And the New York Convention --
13 that is when it says, for instance, there on
14 April 25th, I'm not charging you or
15 intimating here that you are double billing,
16 or anything of that nature, it's more for the
17 benefit of Mr. Roth --
18 A It's another one I had to answer
19 up at the council. They paid me benefits
20 late, North Side.
21 Q We will try to figure out between
22 the District Council and me as to whether
23 your benefit history is not fairly reported.
24 I think that is only fair to you.
25 Even within that time period,
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1 Willoughby
2 there are occasional references to NYCO, New
3 York CO?
4 A Right.
5 Q I'm not suggesting there is
6 anything wrong with that.
7 That refers to the Javits Center,
8 does it not?
9 A Yes.
10 Q So do you have a badge for the
11 Javits Center?
12 A Yes, I do.
13 Q What circumstances would have
14 occasioned your working for the New York
15 Convention Center?
16 A There was no work.
17 Q Who would call you? Would the
18 Convention Center call you?
19 A I would call there, tell them
20 that I'm available.
21 If I showed up, and they needed a
22 certain amount of guys, I would get a call.
23 Q Let me ask you to just refer to
24 the April 30, 2000, date. That is selection
25 No. 256 on the benefit history.
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1 Willoughby
2 You have 24.50 hours for that
3 period. It is during the time you are at
4 your A&M Wallboard situation.
5 A I probably went for the weekend
6 for the car show, probably.
7 What month is it in?
8 Q April. That's the car show?
9 A That's the car show.
10 Q Do you believe that those hours
11 there would have been additional hours?
12 A Right, for the weekend at the car
13 show, yes.
14 Q There was an occasion when you
15 were getting paid at A&M Wallboard for the
16 same hours you are getting paid at New York
17 Convention?
18 A No.
19 Q Just for the benefit of
20 Mr. Callahan and Mr. Roth, in terms of badge
21 holders at the Javits Center, it's a question
22 of notifying them that you are available for
23 time?
24 A Correct, yes.
25 Q So when they have someone who
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1 Willoughby
2 carries the badge --
3 A Right.
4 Q -- they will call you and say
5 there is an opportunity to come in?
6 A If you call and tell them that
7 you are available, yes.
8 Q You were never dispatched by
9 Mr. Tuccillo on any occasion?
10 A No, they call me.
11 Q Okay. Now, during this time that
12 you were at the old Alexander's, you took
13 your track safety course on July 29, 2003.
14 A Yes.
15 Q Was that a time -- I don't think
16 that course is very long. How long is it, a
17 couple of hours?
18 How long is it, a day?
19 A I don't remember.
20 I think it was maybe a couple of
21 hours.
22 Was it Saturday? It might have
23 been a Saturday.
24 Q You tell me.
25 A It might have been a Saturday.
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1 Willoughby
2 Q It added a skill. But it is
3 during a time that you are working full weeks
4 at North Side.
5 I'm just trying to figure out --
6 A When I did it, I understand.
7 Q Do you have a recollection of
8 that?
9 You will get that in terms of
10 your certificate?
11 A Yes, I have that certificate for
12 you.
13 Q Okay. Now we are in 2004, so I
14 don't feel so badly about asking you
15 questions about ancient history here.
16 MR. MACK: What we will do is
17 take a break for five minutes, and then
18 finish up in the next section.
19 Just a five-minute break for
20 Mr. Klein, who is doing the most work
21 for us.
22 (Recess had.)
23 MR. MACK: Back on the record.
24 Q Any additional comments, any
25 changes?
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1 Willoughby
2 MR. ISAACS: No.
3 A No.
4 Q Let's pick up -- and I know you
5 would like to stay here for three or four
6 more hours, but I'm going to try to keep it
7 within three or four.
8 No, we will get finished with
9 this session, but it may be a little longer,
10 it depends on what comes out.
11 I think we will move quickly
12 here. We don't have a lot of time left to
13 cover things.
14 Now, once you left the old
15 Alexander site -- that was the Bloomberg
16 Building, correct?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And during that time, there were
19 some occasions when there were visits to the
20 site, or stuff of that nature?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Do you remember not being there a
23 couple of times when people arrived, looking
24 for you?
25 A No, I don't recall that.
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2 Looking for me?
3 Q Yes.
4 A I don't think so.
5 I think once, I was on vacation,
6 I went to Disney World.
7 I thought it was coincidental,
8 the one day that I was visited was the day I
9 was on vacation.
10 Q My view is this, and --
11 A Not on your part, the local, on
12 my end.
13 Q When you went on vacation, was
14 there a substitute shop steward assigned?
15 A No. I was only gone five days.
16 Q That's another thing --
17 A If it's a week or two, or
18 something, they have to have a substitute.
19 Q Not that it's my role, I
20 certainly don't have any authority to set
21 District Council policy, but at least it is
22 my view that the Director of Operations, Mr.
23 Leary, enforces this rule, that when a shop
24 steward leaves for vacation, or any reason,
25 the VA is supposed to be notified, so a
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1 Willoughby
2 substitute can be assigned for the entire
3 period of the absence.
4 A I think they made fourteen days,
5 ten days, something on that level.
6 Q I don't know what 157 is doing,
7 but basically, at least it is my
8 understanding of Mr. Leary's direction, on no
9 occasion should there be carpenters working
10 without a shop steward being assigned, for an
11 accurate shop steward report.
12 In the future -- and I know we
13 discussed this -- you certainly should go to
14 Disney World. I'm sure the kid had a great
15 time.
16 A Yes.
17 Q But you should have someone
18 substituting for you, so that the reports,
19 and what have you, are accurate?
20 A I have no problem with that at
21 all.
22 Q I'm sure you don't.
23 It's important, I think, for you
24 to understand that at least, as I believe the
25 policy is, and Mr. Leary can be more precise
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1 Willoughby
2 on this, is whenever you are not there, the
3 BA needs to know, so that the BA can, in
4 fact, have a substitute available.
5 I'll say this, the phone calls we
6 get, even though someone accuses Don of
7 making the calls, the reality is, he doesn't
8 do that. Okay?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Then I would be upset with him.
11 Many of these calls are
12 anonymous.
13 They may very well have their own
14 political purposes behind them.
15 A Yes.
16 Q They may not be personal friends,
17 they might be people -- whatever the
18 reason --
19 A Maybe I'm not liked.
20 That's okay. I'm not here to be
21 liked.
22 Q A shop steward's job can put you
23 at odds with people doing the job?
24 A Yes.
25 Q There is nothing wrong in
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2 standing up for your job, but we need you to
3 be there to do that.
4 A An incident with non-union
5 glazers came in.
6 Q This is where?
7 A Where I am now. He was bringing
8 non-union glazers in.
9 Q Yes.
10 A The operator won't let them up.
11 Q Yes. Good.
12 A The super of the job for Newmark
13 put it in that it was my doing. It's a union
14 job, you can't bring them in.
15 Q You were there on Saturday?
16 A Yes.
17 Q They notified you you were doing
18 overtime on Saturday?
19 A Yes, I call every Saturday.
20 Q How was Global handling you,
21 dealing with you? Are they telling you what
22 is going on?
23 A What manner?
24 Q Keeping you apprised, so they are
25 not trying to sneak people in on you.
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1 Willoughby
2 A We have about sixty guys on the
3 job.
4 Q Hopefully, you are there early.
5 A I'm there.
6 Q You are there?
7 A Yes.
8 Q If done, and I come over to
9 visit, I'll find you.
10 A Come on over.
11 Q Okay. That being said, I'm going
12 now to May 6, 2004.
13 You can follow on the job
14 referral list.
15 A May?
16 Q May 6, 2004.
17 A Okay.
18 Q And you are changing your home
19 number. Did you get a new cell phone?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Did you discard your old number?
22 In other words, the old cell
23 phone we have for you --
24 A It no longer existed.
25 Q Okay. On May 25th, you are
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2 dispatched immediately to the Doral Hotel?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And the contractor is U.S., Inc.
5 A I think I worked there for a day.
6 Q My question is, you actually got
7 seven hours?
8 A Right.
9 Q Why didn't you stay on that job?
10 A It was over.
11 Q It was over?
12 A They came back in to do -- I
13 remember this job -- they came back in to do
14 some trim work. The steward upstairs called
15 it in.
16 I was home, I took the phone call
17 for a day.
18 Q The other steward was afraid that
19 they were trying to --
20 A That's your job.
21 Another company comes in to work
22 while you are on the job site, you call the
23 local and tell them.
24 Q Right.
25 A Someone is here. They dispatch a
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2 steward.
3 Q That's the reason it was
4 immediate?
5 A Yes.
6 Q That was only a one-day job?
7 A They just do trim work.
8 Q They were in and out in a day?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Just explain to me here on this
11 May 27, 2004, why you were resequenced. I
12 think I can tell, but I would like to know.
13 A What was I?
14 Q In the terms, or the parlance --
15 the word is of the p-a-r-l-a-n-c-e. That's
16 my big word for the day -- you were
17 resequenced, you were dropped on May 27th --
18 this is not a big deal here -- dropped for a
19 refusal to take a job. Do you see what I
20 mean there?
21 355?
22 A 855.
23 Q I actually added the 3.
24 I don't want to spend a lot of
25 time on this.
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2 Do you see May 27, 2004, maximum
3 refusals?
4 A Yes.
5 Q The mystery phone calls, is that
6 what that means?
7 That's what they are saying.
8 They are saying that you refused, right?
9 Do you have any memory of arguing
10 for resequencing, or asking that you be put
11 back on the list?
12 A I don't.
13 Say that again?
14 Q Do you remember ever being
15 informed that you were dropped off the list,
16 having to start over again, in May, 2004?
17 You may not have?
18 A No.
19 Q You can look at that and decide
20 what, if anything, happened there.
21 You were resequenced because it
22 was, if I read it correctly, they simply made
23 a mistake, the out of work list made a
24 mistake. It should have been "unable to
25 reach."
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2 A Right.
3 Q After the U.S., Inc., job at the
4 Doral Hotel, were you unavailable, did you
5 leave anywhere? Anything come to mind?
6 A No.
7 Q Then you were dispatched on June
8 1st to 50 Madison Avenue.
9 You only got four hours from
10 them.
11 I'm trying to figure out why you
12 didn't stay there.
13 After 50 Madison, Comore
14 Construction, dispatched by, it looks like
15 Fred Kennedy.
16 You did not stay, you only got
17 four hours of benefits, and you are back on
18 the out of work list two days later, on the
19 3rd.
20 Do you remember why you didn't
21 stay on that job, or what the situation was?
22 A I don't recall the situation, no.
23 Q Did you go to that job?
24 A For four hours, yes.
25 I might have got fired.
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2 Q Do you have any memory why you
3 left that job?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay. Back on June 3rd, the out
6 of work list. Your phone is changed from one
7 cell phone to, it looks like your old cell
8 phone, on June 8, 2004?
9 A That's my home number. Back to
10 my home number.
11 Q 917?
12 A That's my cell phone.
13 Q Take a look again, June 8th.
14 Maybe I'm wrong.
15 A Changed to 376 --
16 Q You are right, it's my mistake.
17 You went from your cell phone to
18 your home?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Right.
21 And you bypassed on an immediate,
22 which is your right to do?
23 A Right.
24 Q Okay. Then you were dispatched
25 to RCC, at 3 East 95th Street.
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2 It looks like you got fourteen
3 hours from RCC.
4 My question to you, that was at 3
5 East 95th, Lawrence DeRico, it appears to me,
6 I don't have the real written dispatch, and
7 you did not stay on that job.
8 You are back on the out of work
9 list on the 14th. You got fourteen hours for
10 that.
11 Can you give me some insigh