Please Donate to cover costs and finance law suits by NY Carpenters
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
-------------------------------------------x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff,
Index No.
-against- 90 CIV 5722
(CSH)
DISTRICT COUNCIL OF NEW YORK CITY
AND VICINITY OF THE UNITED
BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND
JOINERS OF AMERICA, et. al.,
Defendants.
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Independent Investigator Deposition
April 9, 2004
4:15 O'clock p.m.
DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL NEE, taken by
the Independent Investigator, Walter Mack, Esq.,
pursuant to letter subpoena, at the offices of
Doar, Rieck & Mack, Esqs., 217 Broadway, 7th
Floor, New York, New York 10007-2911, before
Harold Rabinowitz, a Shorthand Reporter and Notary
Public of the State of New York.
NATIONAL REPORTING INC.
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1 2
2 A P P E A R A N C E S:
3 DOAR RIECK & MACK
217 Broadway - 7th Floor
4 New York, New York 10007-2911
5 BY: WALTER MACK, ESQ.,
Independent Investigator
6
7
O'DWYER & BERNSTEIN. ESQS.
8 Attorneys for Union
52 Duane Street
9 New York, New York 10007`
10 BY: JASON FUIMAN, ESQ.
11
12 KOEHLER & ISAACS, ESQS.
Attorneys for the Witness
13 120 Broadway - 29th Floor
New York, New York 10271
14
BY: STEVEN ISAACS, ESQ.
15
16
EDWARD SCARVALONE, ESQ.
17 Assistant United States Attorney
United States Department of Justice
18 86 Chambers Street
New York, New York 10007
19
20
ALSO PRESENT:
21
DONALD SOBOCIENSKI
22
23
* * *
24
25
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2 MR. MACK: I want to take a few
3 moments, Mr. Nee, in order to go through
4 a number of preliminaries about why you
5 are here and what is happening, and who
6 everybody is in the room; what are the
7 general topics; what your rights as a
8 witness are; who I am, what I do.
9 So I know you're represented by
10 counsel today, and that is Mr. Steven
11 Isaacs, who I welcome here. He is your
12 lawyer and obviously you should consult
13 and feel free to consult with him at any
14 time, about any topic. And if you wish
15 to leave the room at any time to discuss
16 something, or if you have a question,
17 you're perfectly free to be able to
18 leave and discuss anything you would
19 like. I'm glad you have counsel here,
20 because sometimes that makes it easier
21 to explain some of these concepts.
22 I'm Walter Mack, the Independent
23 Investigator. My position was created
24 with the consent of the District Council
25 of Carpenters and the United States
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2 Attorney's Office; and as a result of
3 their consent, United States District
4 Court Judge Charles Haight appointed me
5 in that position. There is a formal
6 Court Order which describes my duties
7 and what my authority is and what I'm
8 supposed to do.
9 I don't work for the Carpenters
10 Union or the U.S. Attorney's Office.
11 I'm an agent of the Federal Court; and
12 therefore you should consider that
13 basically the only person that I
14 represent as such, is the District Court
15 Judge, Charles S. Haight.
16 My duties, in summary fashion,
17 among other things, are to make inquiry
18 about functions of the out-of-work list,
19 to see whether or not it's consistent
20 with the Consent Decree, and that the
21 District Council is in fact complying
22 with the rules. But recognize that I am
23 not a prosecutor. I have no authority
24 to discipline anyone. And therefore, I
25 think the best way to look at my role is
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2 as to gather facts, to try and
3 understand what is there, and to report
4 them to the Court as well as to report
5 them to the District Council.
6 So I do want you to understand
7 that I have no power to discipline
8 anyone. I can recommend for discipline,
9 but, in essence, the decision to
10 discipline is by the District Council,
11 theoretically by the Government, the
12 U.S. Attorney's Office, or by Judge
13 Haight.
14 My job basically is as a fact-
15 gatherer and as a person to analyze
16 data. So if in terms of obtaining that
17 data today, there may be things which
18 are inconsistent with certain rules, or
19 surprising to me or easy for me to
20 understand, but for all intents and
21 purposes, that may mean nothing, because
22 I have no direct authority over you,
23 other than being able to require you to
24 appear here and answer my questions.
25 And therefore I do want you to
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2 understand that I do not have authority
3 myself.
4 However, one of the reasons why
5 the District Council by its lawyer,
6 Mr. Jason Fuiman, and the United States
7 Attorney's Office by the Assistant here,
8 Mr. Scarvalone, they are here by my
9 invitation, because, one, I'm just a
10 lawyer. I'm not a carpenter, and
11 therefore there may very well, because
12 of their experience and competence, have
13 questions or matters that should be
14 raised in the course of the questioning;
15 and they are free to raise those
16 questions. I also want them to know
17 what I'm doing so basically they are
18 aware of some of the questions, and if
19 there are things that should be brought
20 out or things that should be done while
21 I'm preparing my report, they are able
22 to do so.
23 Basically, do you understand the
24 general concept of what I'm doing?
25 I also have other authority: I
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2 evaluate the corruption program of the
3 District Council of Carpenters. I have
4 a right to refer matters to Prosecutors
5 and people of that nature.
6 In essence, that's my role.
7 I know your counsel has a copy of
8 the Order appointing me, the Consent
9 Order. I'm going to give him an
10 opportunity in a few moments to inquire
11 about anything that is unclear, but my
12 main purpose at the moment is to give
13 you some idea of what I'm about, and
14 what my duties are.
15 Do you have some general view of
16 what my duties are?
17 MR. NEE: I heard about you, and
18 I heard about what you're doing. I may
19 have an idea.
20 Mr. Mack: I want you to
21 understand that either you, directly, or
22 Mr. Isaacs, can ask me questions, but my
23 authority and my duties are set forth in
24 a written Order which your counsel has;
25 and I have the authority to require
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2 individuals to appear under oath and
3 answer questions.
4 I've had many people appear
5 already. I have only been around for a
6 relatively short time, and when there
7 are questions that I don't understand, I
8 find that in order to ensure that I get
9 a very accurate record, and that's why
10 the gentleman who is sitting to your
11 left is here, he makes certain that
12 everything that is done or said, that
13 there's an accurate record of what is
14 done or said; and so that I don't make a
15 mistake when I trying try to figure out
16 what I'm doing or saying in my report, I
17 have a record to refer to.
18 Now, in a few moments you'll be
19 sworn as a witness. I think what I say
20 to almost every witness -- as a matter
21 of fact, there was another individual
22 with me last night starting at the same
23 time, and I say the same thing to every
24 person who appears. So, I'm not
25 singling you out for more or less. I
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2 say the same thing, sometimes in
3 different words, but the most important
4 message that I can give you is that it's
5 important to listen to my question and
6 answer it to the best of your ability,
7 because your obligation will be, when
8 you're sworn, is to tell me the truth,
9 the whole truth, and nothing but the
10 truth. And therefore, should you
11 intentionally seek to mislead me or lie
12 to me, as I say to every witness, that's
13 something that, if I discover it, and I
14 usually do in time, is something that
15 could expose you to serious sanctions.
16 Those sanctions could be a
17 perjury prosecution, an obstruction of
18 justice prosecution, or a contempt
19 prosecution. I give those warnings to
20 everyone, because it is my genuine
21 sincere wish that since I'm not a
22 Prosecutor and since all I'm trying to
23 do is gather accurate facts so that I
24 can report them, the worst thing that
25 any witness could do would be to lie
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2 under oath and expose him or herself to
3 any sanction because of that. And so,
4 basically, I request every witness who
5 appears, simply to tell me the truth and
6 basically -- because no one can predict
7 what the outcome, what the meaning of
8 those facts will be in terms of the
9 meaning of the out-of-work list or in
10 terms of how the Carpenters Union fares
11 in going forward. So, there's really no
12 reason to lie. Unfortunately, from time
13 to time, some people feel that they can
14 lie without any concern. You know: If
15 I stick to my story, nothing can happen.
16 I'm sure your counsel has advised
17 you to listen to the questions, answer
18 them to the best of your ability, and
19 we'll get through this and let me do my
20 work. Other people will come in from
21 time to time. Basically I'm a fact-
22 gatherer. So, basically what I'm saying
23 to you is, to tell the truth.
24 I'll try to ask you clear and
25 concise questions. If the question
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2 isn't clear, you can ask me to rephrase
3 the question and I'll do so.
4 Now, I also say to every witness
5 who appears before me -- although I
6 don't think I can ask a question, and I
7 have no reason to believe that I will
8 ask a question where you might think
9 that you will be incriminating yourself.
10 I have no reason to believe that you're
11 a criminal or that you have done
12 anything criminal, and I'm not a
13 criminal prosecutor, but you have the
14 right, as every witness has in a
15 proceeding of this nature, and I would
16 encourage you to consult with counsel on
17 the subject matter, that if I ask you a
18 question which you don't want to answer,
19 you can refuse to answer that question
20 on the basis of your Fifth Amendment
21 privilege.
22 This is a civil proceeding. This
23 is not a criminal proceeding, but I'm
24 permitted under the rules of law that I
25 function with, that if you do assert the
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2 Fifth, which is your constitutional
3 right to do so, I can still draw from
4 that, inferences, or may or may not draw
5 inferences from that, in terms of my
6 investigation or what I'm trying to
7 discern, what I'm trying to figure out.
8 Now, that is a concept that you
9 may want to discuss with your counsel,
10 but basically, in very simple terms, if
11 I asked you a question which you think
12 might expose you to some type of
13 proceeding, I would encourage you to
14 talk to the gentleman to your right,
15 leave the room and think about it,
16 before you do. I mean, that's one of
17 the great benefits of having your own
18 attorney here. He is the only person in
19 this room who is your lawyer.
20 The District Council's lawyer
21 represents the District Council, and
22 although your interests and those of the
23 District Council may be perfectly
24 aligned and there may be no conflict, at
25 least there's theoretically that
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2 possibility.
3 Mr. Isaacs' sole job in this room
4 is to give you individual counseling to
5 the best of his abilities. So, if
6 there's something that you want to talk
7 to him about, please do so.
8 I can give you some idea of what
9 we'll be talking about today. I'm going
10 to go through some of your work history.
11 I would say that there have been a
12 number of issues raised that I feel that
13 I have to explore with you. I'll try to
14 give you records. They'll have little
15 orange stickers on them like that.
16 Those stickers mean nothing, other than
17 to permit me to keep track of the
18 documents, so that in a week or a month
19 from now when I look at the number, I
20 can see that it's MN-10, and know what
21 it is on the record. So, basically the
22 numbers mean nothing, other than
23 allowing me to keep track of specific
24 documents.
25 I'll show you documents. I'll
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2 show you your work history. Some
3 documents I may look at but I won't show
4 you, because I have no reason to believe
5 that you know what those records are, or
6 whether those records pertain to you.
7 But if it's something that does directly
8 pertain to you, I'll show you the
9 record. You can look at that record.
10 You can leave with Mr. Isaacs and
11 discuss what it is.
12 I don't know whether you have
13 ever seen your work history. I don't
14 know whether you have ever seen some of
15 these things. You can take your time
16 and say: Hold up; I want to look at
17 this history before I answer the
18 question.
19 It's my purpose to be as fair and
20 as thorough on these topics as I can be.
21 So, if you need more time or if you
22 would like to take a break, or if you
23 would simply like to discuss matters
24 with your council, all you have to do is
25 tell me.
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2 If a question is not clear and
3 simple, just say: Hey, I don't know
4 what you're talking about; try it again,
5 and I will, because I need a record
6 here, and there is no interest or intent
7 on my part to take advantage of you or
8 ask you trick questions, or do anything,
9 basically, that would lead me to other
10 than a clear and accurate answer.
11 Having said all of that, and, as
12 I say, I say that to every witness who
13 appears with or without a lawyer; do you
14 have any questions that you would like
15 to ask me before we begin?
16 MR. NEE: No.
17 MR. MACK: Mr. Isaacs, anything
18 that you would like to say, add or
19 delete?
20 MR. ISAACS: I would like to add
21 that while you fully explained my
22 client's Fifth Amendments rights, he is
23 here subject to your authority. I'll
24 reserve, and it may never become an
25 issue, but if it does become an issue in
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2 the future, whatever rights he may need
3 to claim if the District Council sought
4 to discipline him, inasmuch as the
5 District Council is here as your
6 invitee. So, we have not consented to
7 them asking him questions. And I agree,
8 their interests may be perfectly aligned
9 or they may not.
10 The District Council entered into
11 this stipulation and Consent Order
12 without the ratification of the
13 membership. Whether or not that proves
14 to be an issue in the future, I at least
15 want that to be clear. It may never be,
16 but if it is one in the future, I at
17 least reserve whatever rights Mr. Nee
18 will have. He is not waiving any rights
19 by answering the questions of the
20 independent authority.
21 MR. MACK: That's fine. I have
22 no problem, and I can tell you that
23 knowing Judge Haight as I do, that if at
24 any time you wish to go to him to raise
25 any of those issues, he is a very fair
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2 person, and you have that right today or
3 next week or next month. You're not
4 waiving any rights that you may have.
5 So, feel free to do that.
6 I'm going to presume that we can
7 proceed today?
8 MR. ISAACS: Absolutely.
9 Absolutely.
10 MR. MACK: Mr. Fuiman, Jason, do
11 you want to say anything, add anything,
12 delete anything, comment in any way?
13 MR. FUIMAN: No.
14 MR. MACK: As I have said, you're
15 my invitee. Every time I do take sworn
16 testimony, I notify and invite the
17 District Council, and you are here and
18 I'll try to give you copies of anything
19 that we may talk about. So, feel free
20 to correct things -- you know my
21 feeling, and I'm sure you have
22 experience in the interests of the
23 District Council, and I'll rely upon you
24 to speak in their behalf if it's
25 appropriate.
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2 Mr. Scarvalone from the U.S.
3 Attorney's Office, anything you would
4 like to add, subtract or modify?
5 MR. SCARVALONE: Nothing.
6 MR. MACK: This gentleman is Don
7 Sobocienski; he works with me. He is
8 the individual who has the misfortune of
9 being the investigator who works with
10 me. He is much more factual and
11 competent than I am. He works with the
12 Independent Investigator's office. It's
13 his job to be familiar with the records,
14 and he may ask me things from time to
15 time, or tell me things from time to
16 time. He participates with me in the
17 duties of the Independent Investigator
18 on a regular basis.
19 Any other matters or any other
20 suggestions?
21 I know you guys would like to
22 stay here late into the night, but I
23 would like to move here reasonably and
24 efficiently today.
25 I know, Mr. Nee, you won't
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2 complain about that.
3 Let me ask the reporter to swear
4 in Mr. Nee.
5 M I C H A E L N E E , the witness
6 herein, being first duly sworn by Harold
7 Rabinowitz, a Notary Public of the State of
8 New York, was examined and testified as
9 follows:
10 EXAMINATION BY
11 MR. MACK:
12 Q Mr. Nee, I would like to go
13 through a number of things to start with. I
14 would like to go reasonably carefully and
15 slowly, but I want to show you -- forgive me
16 for doing this in a methodical fashion, but I
17 would like to show you a document which I
18 believe to be the copy of the Notice that was
19 provided to you, the result of which we have
20 your presence here today.
21 So, I have marked that, as I say
22 these numbers have no significance of any
23 kind, MN-4, and ask you if at least to your
24 knowledge, that's a copy of the document that
25 you received which resulted eventually in
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2 your appearance here today?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 (Notice of Deposition marked
5 Exhibit MN-4.)
6 Q And as a result of that, I asked
7 you to bring in records for skills and
8 training that you have received, and you have
9 furnished me, just a few moments ago, with
10 the originals of those.
11 And I want to ask you if what I
12 have marked as MN-20 is in fact a copy of the
13 original certifications and training skills
14 certificates that are yours?
15 A Yes, they are.
16 Q And is there any skills
17 certificatation or certificate or training
18 proof, beyond those that are set forth in
19 MN-20, that you couldn't bring today for some
20 reason, or that have expired or that you have
21 lost?
22 A I don't have any more, no.
23 (Skills and training
24 certifications marked Exhibit MN-20.)
25 Q I may refer to them from time to
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2 time. I guess one question that I want to
3 just take a look at while I'm thinking about
4 it, and I think it's on the second page of
5 MN-20, and feel free to look on with your
6 counsel, the second form on that page -- I'm
7 having a little trouble reading it. I want
8 to make sure -- you can look at your original
9 or in whatever other way, I want to get the
10 date that that refers to, so I can write it
11 in on my copy.
12 A I think that's the latest. I'm
13 not sure.
14 Q I think that's OSHA at the top of
15 it.
16 A No. This is OSHA.
17 (Witness hands card to Mr. Mack.)
18 Q I just need to look at this.
19 Now, I'm referring to your OSHA
20 card. I think a copy of that, at least on my
21 copy, is the second form. It's kind of
22 fuzzy, but there it is. So, I just want to
23 write, using the original, so I can read it.
24 So, that is signed in October of '99. Is
25 that when you got the certificate?
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2 A Yes.
3 Q I'm just going to write that on
4 my copy so I won't have to bother you for the
5 original.
6 It's signed by Richard Dwyer?
7 A I don't know who it's signed by.
8 Q My question is: Did you take
9 your ten-hour OSHA course at the Carpenters
10 school?
11 A Yes, I did.
12 Q Can you give me a general idea of
13 when you took that? Was it '99 sometime?
14 A I haven't a clue, but it was in
15 that time. I have taken the classes for the
16 last five years.
17 Q I'm relying upon this as your
18 certification of your ten-hour OSHA.
19 A That's what I got in the mail.
20 Q Okay.
21 Are you familiar with a course
22 called a 40-hour OSHA?
23 A Yes, I am.
24 Q Is that a course that you
25 yourself have taken?
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2 A No. We get an eight-hour or a
3 ten-hour course; one or the other.
4 Q What is your knowledge about, if
5 any, about either a 40- or a 30-hour OSHA?
6 Is that different from the ten-hour?
7 A I'm sure you're going to learn a
8 lot more in 40 hours about conditions on the
9 jobs, and all of that.
10 Q I'll get to that; but you have
11 not taken that course?
12 A No. I'm not entitled to take it.
13 I mean, you can take one or the other, I
14 imagine.
15 Q Now, what I would like to do --
16 have you ever had a chance or an occasion to
17 review the District Council's record of your
18 job history?
19 A No.
20 Q So, what I'm going to do is
21 provide you a copy of what the District
22 Council has provided me, and I'm going to
23 read it and refer to things that are set
24 forth in your history.
25 The history is designed by the
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2 District Council, your assignments, what
3 happened, when you were on the list, what
4 skills were added -- it's a computer run that
5 describes your interactions on those topics
6 with the District Council.
7 I think you have just told me you
8 haven't seen it yourself?
9 A I haven't seen it.
10 Q I'm going to show it to you
11 today, so that you will know why I'm asking
12 specific questions. You may look at it. You
13 may say: Hey, that's not valid, or, that
14 doesn't pertain to me, or this didn't happen;
15 but that's the record that I have to rely
16 upon because I wasn't around in some of these
17 time periods, and that's the record the
18 District Council has provided to me.
19 Let me provide you a copy because
20 I want to spend some time asking you some
21 questions about it. If you don't remember,
22 you don't remember. If there's a question
23 you can't answer, you can say I can't answer
24 that question. But this is the record that I
25 have which permits me to understand your
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1 Nee 25
2 history at the District Council from a
3 computer record; and that will be, shall we
4 say, the start of some of my questions.
5 Do you understand what I have
6 just said?
7 A I understand it.
8 I hope the Council has my record.
9 I'm vested in that.
10 Q You'll know better in a few
11 moments here. I'm going to use the original
12 which is marked MN-1, and I want to give a
13 copy to all counsel.
14 I would appreciate it if you
15 would share with Mr. Isaacs -- if you want to
16 take a few moments to look at it. You
17 haven't seen it.
18 A That's okay.
19 (Pause.)
20 (Work history from District
21 Council marked Exhibit MN-1.)
22 Q I am trying to proceed relatively
23 chronologically. If you want to stop me, you
24 may.
25 The hardest working person in
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2 here is Mr. Rabinowitz. We'll quit about
3 every 50 minutes and take a break and then go
4 and continue. So, for your purposes here,
5 we'll go about another 20, 25 minutes and
6 we'll complete this, and then you can go on
7 your way and forget about this.
8 Let me ask you about this skill.
9 The skill is carried -- you carry it. I
10 haven't been able to find its addition to the
11 list: Foreman/layout. Can you tell me what,
12 is your mind, that skill classification is?
13 A A foreman is the guy that runs
14 the crew.
15 Q That, I know.
16 A Layout, I mean, you lay out for
17 walls, for columns, a lot of stuff.
18 Q Now, there are at least some
19 folks who say, gee, you can be a foreman
20 without having a layout skill, or you can lay
21 out without having to be a foreman. So, my
22 question to you is, if you know or have an
23 opinion on that subject: Why is the foreman
24 and layout combined as one skill?
25 A That, I can't tell you.
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2 Q Okay. That's fair enough.
3 Do you remember when you first
4 added foreman/layout as a skill for your
5 skill classification?
6 A As far as I know, that was there
7 since the first day we went by the list.
8 Q In your mind, what is the first
9 day you went by the list? It doesn't have to
10 be the exact day --
11 A Probably from when we started
12 with the Council. What year was that?
13 Q Well, the first entry I see --
14 and I can tell you that I think you were
15 initiated sometime in '78, but the first --
16 A That's right.
17 Q The first entry that I have seen
18 is December 28, 1998. That is the only
19 record.
20 A Well, that's why, because the
21 jobs used to come out of the hall there, and
22 when the job was referred in the hall to the
23 Council, it was in the late '90s, I imagine.
24 I don't have no record of that. That's when
25 we started taking those classes. We never
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2 had taken those classes before.
3 Q Would it be fair for me to say
4 that when you first had your name added to
5 the list, you had the skill of foreman/
6 layout?
7 A I imagine I did.
8 Q Because I have looked through
9 everything here and I don't see -- although I
10 see a lot of your skills being added at
11 particular times, I don't see that one. So,
12 I'm going to presume that you had it when you
13 first went on the list.
14 A It's possible.
15 Q Okay. And you share my
16 question -- you don't have to respond to
17 that, but, I'm wondering why the foreman and
18 layout are in the same skill. It seems to me
19 they can be separated quite easily.
20 A If you're a foreman you can lay
21 out. Most people can lay out. Not everybody
22 is a foreman.
23 Q Right. And you can be a foreman
24 without the ability to lay out?
25 A Exactly.
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2 Q And you can go along with me here
3 any time you want to. If you don't want to,
4 it's entirely up to you.
5 My first question is: How did
6 you -- as far as you can recall, how did you
7 first come to be employed by Century Max as a
8 company? Do you remember --
9 A I think the first job I went with
10 them was March '99. What date, I don't know,
11 but I came off the list.
12 Q And do you remember anything
13 about that assignment, that referral to
14 Century Max?
15 A Walter, if I tell you -- I don't
16 remember what happened yesterday, and
17 sometimes I don't remember what happened
18 years ago --
19 Q I'll try to help you if I can.
20 A I was out of work three and a
21 half months before I went to the last job I'm
22 on, with this weather. I was on the list
23 last November, but I don't remember '99.
24 Q I have some things that may help
25 you. I'll try to show you as we go along,
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2 but your memory is the most important. So,
3 if these documents refresh your memory, fine.
4 A I remember going to the job. I
5 remember being on the job.
6 Q All right. Then, what I'm going
7 to do is perhaps give you another document
8 that may be of help to you, and maybe it
9 won't.
10 Now, I don't know whether you
11 have ever seen the records that the District
12 Council keeps with respect to every referral
13 whenever a company requests or not. I don't
14 know whether you have or not, Mr. Nee.
15 A Before we go any further with the
16 Council, the only thing I check with the
17 Council is my hours. If my hours match my
18 pay stubs, that's all I care about.
19 Q I understand.
20 A That's all it means to me.
21 That's what I'm there for.
22 Q Okay, but every time, at least
23 let's say since '99, that you're referred to
24 a job, since March of '99, there's a document
25 that is generated at the District Council,
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2 that, at least in their minds, refers to that
3 referral.
4 And I'm going to give you and
5 your counsel a copy of that, with the idea
6 that perhaps what is on that document can
7 refresh your recollection about the
8 circumstances of that particular job. It may
9 not refresh it, but at least you'll have it.
10 You can look at it and I'll refer you to it.
11 You say you have never seen it,
12 but it refers to you, and it may have
13 something of value that helps you remember,
14 and I'll try to bring that out; do you
15 understand what I'm trying to do?
16 A I understand.
17 Q Good. And that exhibit as best
18 as I can tell, and it's knots in perfect
19 order, has been marked as MN-7.
20 (Document, referrals, marked
21 Exhibit MN-7.)
22 (Copies of Exhibit MN-7 handed to
23 all counsel by Mr. Mack.)
24 Q It's my belief that your first
25 assignment to Century Max is this form --
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2 A First time ever.
3 Q And that tells me that John
4 Greany was the individual who called this
5 request in. Do you have some recollection --
6 A To be quite honest with you, it
7 could be called in by anyone.
8 Q Who is John Greany?
9 A He is our business agent.
10 Q Now, this job, and I say this
11 because I'm looking at the form, and I have
12 no knowledge of this myself, was at 101 West
13 End Avenue.
14 A Correct.
15 Q Is that an accurate record?
16 A That's correct, yes.
17 Q And is that your first job with
18 Century Max?
19 A That's correct.
20 Q I ask you this: Do you have a
21 recollection of the circumstances surrounding
22 your being sent to that job?
23 A I was on the out-of-work -- I was
24 on the list.
25 Q And you had no idea that you were
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2 going to be sent there.
3 It was just a matter until you
4 got the request or the referral, that you had
5 no idea that you were going to be sent there?
6 A I knew I was going someplace, but
7 I didn't know where I was going.
8 Q How did you know that you were
9 going someplace?
10 A I was out of work. You can't be
11 out of work forever. That's what we have the
12 list for.
13 Q That's one of the subjects we are
14 going to work on today.
15 MR. ISAACS: Mr. Mack, this is a
16 form that theoretically is filled out by
17 John Greany, faxed to the District
18 Council, who then goes to their list and
19 calls out whoever is next and on the
20 list?
21 MR. MACK: Right. But these are
22 forms given me by the District Council
23 which are maintained by them. They are
24 furnished to your client so that
25 basically he has the benefit of what I
NATIONAL REPORTING INC. (877) 733-6373
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2 have, and that doesn't mean they are
3 accurate or inaccurate.
4 MR. ISAACS: Absolutely.
5 MR. MACK: If you want to take a
6 few moments to take a look at that,
7 you're certainly welcome to do so. I
8 can't vouch for their accuracy or
9 completeness. I can only tell you that
10 that's what I received.
11 A May I say a word here?
12 Q Sure.
13 A Is it signed by John Greany or is
14 it his letterhead?
15 It could be called in by any
16 business agent.
17 Q All I'm telling you is, that
18 that's the record of the District Council. I
19 have an opportunity from time to time to
20 speak to Mr. Greany on subjects such as
21 these; and I often ask him: Do you remember
22 this job?
23 He has a very good memory. He is
24 a professional business agent, and he
25 frequently does. I couldn't tell you what
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2 his memory is on this. This is a record I
3 have. It's designed to see if it helps you
4 remember. I have other people that I can
5 talk to about the job, including people at
6 Century Max.
7 Now, let me ask you about this
8 job, because one of the skills that is
9 requested there, if one accepts these records
10 as being accurate, is layout or foreman/
11 layout.
12 A Or concrete layout.
13 Q So, you went there. Did you go
14 there as a shop steward?
15 A Yes, I did.
16 Q Did you -- let me ask you this:
17 Had you gone to other jobs as a concrete shop
18 steward before this one?
19 A Yes, I had.
20 Q And would you consider yourself
21 as of this time, March of '99, an experienced
22 concrete shop steward?
23 A I would say so.
24 Q Did you have any responsibility
25 on this job, 101 West End Avenue, to do
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2 layout?
3 A Probably a few times, whatever we
4 had to do, I did some layout there, yes.
5 Q All I can ask is for your best
6 recollection.
7 Did you feel that a layout skill
8 was appropriate for this job?
9 A It wouldn't hurt.
10 Q No. I know that. Almost all
11 your skills wouldn't hurt, but I'm asking you
12 as a professional carpenter, was this a job
13 which, in your professional judgment,
14 required your layout skills.
15 I know it would never hurt. Any
16 skill wouldn't hurt.
17 A I couldn't say it would or would
18 not, but I had to do it there, so it was done
19 there. So, what kind of question is that?
20 Q I'm trying to figure out whether
21 you did any kind of layout on that job.
22 A Yes, I did.
23 Q And you think the layout skill
24 asked for on this job, was an appropriate
25 skill --
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2 A No doubt in my mind.
3 Q And how long did you work for
4 Century Max on this job, Mr. Nee?
5 A I started there in March and I
6 was there until the following February, or
7 something like that.
8 Q If you would take a look, it at
9 least appears to me that on February 16, 2000
10 that you went back on the out-of-work list.
11 Now, take your time and look at
12 that. Maybe that's wrong, but that's the way
13 it appears to me.
14 A Its possible. I probably did.
15 As I told you before, going back here a
16 little bit, I didn't see those records
17 before. I can say I went back sometime. Did
18 I go back on February 16? That, I cannot
19 tell you.
20 Q All I have to use is the records
21 they give me. I have no independent
22 knowledge, but the records that are given me
23 reflect that you went back to the list on
24 February 16, 2000. I want to make sure
25 Mr. Isaacs has a chance to go down the list
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2 and take a look at this.
3 A It's very possible, because we
4 were laid off there for one day, or we were
5 supposed to get laid off, and then there was
6 another little bit to do and we were there
7 for another while. It's very possible. I
8 know it was February, but the job would have
9 went on for a few weeks afterwards.
10 Q Yes, because I also have the
11 benefit of your, shall we say, benefits
12 record as well, and at least it appears to
13 me --
14 A I should have that myself.
15 Q And again, I'm going to say that
16 at least the records that were furnished to
17 me, indicate that on the week of February 16
18 you were still working for Century Max.
19 So, my question to you is, if you
20 remember, and again I can't vouch for the
21 records -- I'm trying to determine -- and
22 it's not just February 16, but the benefit
23 records, and maybe they are inaccurate, Mr.
24 Nee, but I don't know. But the records
25 reflect that you were working during the
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2 period -- for Century Max when you put your
3 name on the out-of-work list.
4 A It's very possible, because I'll
5 tell you why: The job shut down. So, they
6 told us we were going to get laid off. So,
7 anybody who was there put there name on the
8 list, but we went back to work again.
9 Q Okay. So, you know probably
10 better than I do that basically you have to
11 be out of work to be on the out-of-work list.
12 A Yes. They have different rules
13 and regulations for that now. You're fined
14 if you're on the list.
15 Q So, basically what I can do
16 and --
17 A We didn't have that at that time.
18 Now we have that.
19 Q So, at least if I go through your
20 records, there's a period there that you're
21 on the out-of-work list that at least -- and
22 again maybe these records are not accurate,
23 but they reflect the fact that you're at
24 least receiving benefits during the time
25 period that you're on the list. Okay?
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2 So, my question to you is:
3 Should I doubt the accuracy of the records,
4 or do you have a recollection as to why
5 you're on the list when you're working for
6 Century Max?
7 A To be quite honest with you, I
8 don't know what time I was put on the list
9 and what time I came off the list.
10 Q My concern is, and at least in my
11 mind the question is, were you working for
12 Century Max when you were put back on the
13 list?
14 A We came back to Century Max.
15 There was a break there, and then we came
16 back.
17 Q Take your time. I'm not trying
18 to rush you. In other words, certainly, at
19 least as I understand the rules, if you're
20 laid off or out of work you can put yourself
21 on the out-of-work list.
22 A The job was just about over in
23 February. Something else came up, a little
24 more sidewalk -- I can't flash this back to
25 remember --
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2 Q Take your time.
3 A So, we probably got another three
4 weeks out of it; two, two and a half weeks,
5 whatever.
6 Q It's my understanding of the
7 rules that when you go back to work you're
8 supposed to come off the out-of-work list;
9 correct?
10 A Yes. That's what it is.
11 Q I want to ask you about a couple
12 of things that also occurred in February of
13 2000, and again, I have no independent
14 knowledge of this. This is just what these
15 computer lists are telling me, and that's all
16 I have to rely upon. So that's why your
17 memory is important to me. That's why you
18 are here. If I just relied on the list I
19 wouldn't need to bring you in, because I
20 could compare the benefits records with what
21 your work history is, and draw a conclusion.
22 I knew you would want to tell me your own
23 views on the subject, and that's why you are
24 here -- that's one of the reasons why you are
25 here today; all right?
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2 A You got it.
3 Q Now, on February 17, 2000, and
4 during this period, there are a lot of skills
5 that you add, a number of skills to your
6 history. And let me say this: I commend any
7 carpenter such as yourself who is
8 professional enough to add skills. That's
9 not the subject matter, but I commend you for
10 that. It's not a subject of criticism. Its
11 a commendment.
12 What I'm trying to find out is
13 the timing here. The timing as it's
14 expressed to me on these computer lists.
15 Now, on February 17, 2000, my
16 understanding from the computer is that over
17 like a minute's time, 40-hour OSHA went on
18 and went off. Do you have an understanding
19 as to why that entry is there?
20 A I don't have a clue. I don't
21 have it, so I don't know why it went on. I
22 have the OSHA, but not the 40 hours.
23 Q Do you remember having any
24 conversation with the out-of-work list
25 operator that dealt with 40-hour OSHA?
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2 A No.
3 Q Now, I would tell you that very
4 shortly thereafter, ten-hour OSHA was added.
5 Like, I think the very next day.
6 A Did I have ten-hour OSHA at that
7 time?
8 Q Yes, you did, if that certificate
9 is right. So, I'm trying to jog your memory
10 as to why 40 went on and then went off, and
11 then why ten went on, if you remember?
12 A I couldn't tell you.
13 Q Now, during this time period, Mr.
14 Nee, at least as I read this, from February
15 16, 2000 until March of 2000, you're on the
16 out-of-work list, and although you're adding
17 skills and what have you, at least it appears
18 from your benefit records that you're also
19 working for Century Max during this entire
20 period. And I'm trying to know what your
21 recollection is on that subject.
22 A As I told you, the job came to an
23 end in February. We were called back.
24 Probably my name was on the list -- I can't
25 say I put it on, but did I take it off?
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2 That's another story. That's my recollection
3 right now.
4 Q Is it your recollection that you
5 took it off?
6 A No. I don't think I took it off
7 because I knew the job was coming to an end,
8 and it was so many weeks left there either
9 way.
10 Q I have the records and I'm going
11 to have to rely on the records. But if you
12 remember that you took your name off the list
13 and it's still on the list, I would like you
14 to tell me about that. Your memory is more
15 important than these records. All I have to
16 go by are these records.
17 A There was a time there when we
18 put our name on the list --
19 Q You and others?
20 A Any member. -- we didn't have to
21 take it off after 11 days. Now it's
22 mandatory. If you're working and it's 11
23 days, it's a different story right now. I
24 don't think we had that at that time, as far
25 as I'm concerned, anyway.
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2 Q All I'm entitled to is your best
3 memory.
4 Now, if you would look at your
5 job referral list, it may help you or not,
6 but I'll ask you the question: I notice that
7 on March 30, 2000 -- and take a look at it --
8 that you added two skills; concrete and
9 welder, one at 9:19 a.m. -- and the reason I
10 say 9:19, are for reasons that the District
11 Council can only explain. Their computer
12 runs on West Coast time. So, if you take a
13 moment and take a look on March 30, you'll
14 see a skill added and it says 6:19 a.m. I'm
15 looking at just the second from the bottom
16 there on where it says Page 2 at the top of
17 the Exhibit MN-1. You may take a moment and
18 look at it.
19 A I don't think I was calling the
20 council at 6:19 a.m.
21 Q No, you weren't. It's actually
22 three hours later than that because it's 6:19
23 West Coast time, which is 9:19 East Coast
24 time.
25 So, this record tells me that you
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2 or somebody using your phone number, or name,
3 I should say, added the skills of concrete
4 and welder at 9:19 and 9:20 a.m. on that day.
5 A Well, I don't have a welding
6 license.
7 Q That was going to be my question.
8 A I don't think I put that on.
9 Q You see, that's why I go through
10 these records and that's why I need to talk
11 to you eyeball-to-eyeball, so that I get a
12 chance to understand some of these things.
13 A Welding I did, but I don't have a
14 license for it.
15 Q Is it a puzzle to you why there's
16 a welder skill added to your name that day?
17 A No, because if I look back, at
18 times I did spot-welding on jobs without no
19 license.
20 Q Okay. You see, that's my
21 question. I need your help in telling me --
22 A So, I don't see -- I don't recall
23 putting that on or not. But I did welding.
24 If I got away with it in the '80s or early
25 '90s, what is the difference now?
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2 Q This is 2004.
3 A I may be doing it next week.
4 MR. ISAACS: Can we take a couple
5 of minutes?
6 MR. MACK: Let's take our break
7 now. Harold has been working hard here.
8 (Whereupon a recess was taken.)
9 MR. MACK: Back on the record.
10 I'll try to say this each time we
11 go back on the record.
12 If as a result of something you
13 have said or have heard, if you would
14 like to add, amend or subtract from your
15 testimony, you're free to do so when we
16 come back from the break. You obviously
17 continue under oath throughout the
18 entire deposition today until we finish.
19 So, having said that, is there anything
20 that you would like to say?
21 I'm going to ask you a couple of
22 the questions again, but you have had
23 the benefit of Steven's counsel and
24 advice.
25 Is there anything that you would
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2 like to say at this time, or a comment
3 you would like to make?
4 THE WITNESS: No.
5 Q I'm going to go back to asking
6 you if you remember the circumstances under
7 which on March 30, 2000 you added the skill
8 of welder to your skill classifications?
9 A I don't recall that.
10 Q You don't recall doing it or --
11 A No. I don't recall nothing about
12 welder being on the list.
13 What I don't understand about
14 that: Anybody can call up and put something
15 on the list, but if you don't have the class,
16 it's not going to go on.
17 Q Okay. Well I can't speak for the
18 District Council or --
19 A As far as I'm concerned, you have
20 to have the certification in that class
21 before it goes on. So, I don't know how it
22 goes on there.
23 Q Do you have any recollection of
24 asking the skill of welding to go on the list
25 on your behalf?
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2 A No. Not for me, no.
3 Q Do you doubt that the entry there
4 that shows adding that skill, do you doubt
5 that as an accurate classification, or you
6 just don't remember?
7 A It's not accurate because I don't
8 have it.
9 Q Okay.
10 A And I don't recall putting it on.
11 I don't see why I put it on.
12 Q Let me say that -- and ask you to
13 continue if you will. And if you turn the
14 page you'll see that at 5:12 p.m. on that
15 very day, you accepted a referral that had
16 the skill welder on it as well as concrete;
17 two skills which you did not have twenty-four
18 hours before. And I'm trying to figure out
19 whether that helps you remember why those
20 skills were added to you.
21 A As far as I'm concerned, there is
22 no certification for concrete. That's what I
23 do.
24 Q Say that again? I just didn't
25 hear you.
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2 A As far as I'm concerned -- for
3 every job I go to I put down concrete.
4 That's what I do.
5 Is there a certification for
6 concrete?
7 Q There's a skill.
8 A That's what I do every day and
9 I'll do that next time I go out, I'll put
10 concrete down because that's what I do.
11 That's my skill.
12 Q But you also have other skills
13 that were added, because either you or
14 someone in your name, that very morning added
15 concrete, which was not on your skill list on
16 March 30, and also welder.
17 Now, what I would like you to do,
18 because on that very date at approximately
19 three -- eight hours later, there was a
20 referral which I would like to talk to you
21 about. You should go to MN-7, and keep
22 turning. It's about -- it's Pages 6 and 7 in
23 that exhibit. Just turn to that.
24 It refers to a job on March 30 at
25 West 34th Street, and the form on the top is
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2 the form of the District Council. And right
3 underneath it is the District Council's
4 record of the request coming in from Century
5 Max.
6 So, stay a moment and read that
7 to yourself, because you'll see that the
8 skills requested, at least allegedly, by this
9 gentleman, Mr. Richardson who is alleged to
10 be the caller, specifically had in it, in
11 addition to the skills that you had, the
12 skill of welding and concrete, which you did
13 not have nine hours before.
14 And my question, of course, is:
15 Did you have any pre-knowledge beforehand
16 that there would be a Century Max job coming
17 up that would require those skills which you
18 needed to add to the out-of-work list?
19 A No, I didn't.
20 Q So, is it -- and I do want you to
21 take your time on this. You may want to take
22 a look at that, because this is a Century Max
23 job and it has specific skills on it for that
24 day which you did not have before 9:19, that
25 resulted in your being dispatched for that
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2 job. And I'm going to ask you about that;
3 and maybe you can tell me that that was just
4 good fortune. Is that what you would tell
5 me, that it was just good fortune?
6 A Your talking about the welding?
7 I don't have my glasses with me.
8 Q I have a magnifying glass if you
9 just bear me with for a moment.
10 MR. MACK: Take your time, Steve.
11 Go over that. I'm not trying to rush
12 your client here. I want you to read
13 the forms.
14 MR. ISAACS: Why don't we take a
15 look at this outside for a second.
16 MR. MACK: Take as much time as
17 you want.
18 (Mr. Isaacs and Mr. Nee exited
19 the deposition room, then returned).
20 MR. MACK: Let me go back on the
21 record and say that I know in some ways,
22 Mr. Nee, this is unfair to you because
23 you haven't seen these records before.
24 Although these records are available to
25 you, you know, at least your work
NATIONAL REPORTING INC. (877) 733-6373
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2 referral history, you have told me that
3 you haven't seen them before. I have no
4 problem if you would like to take these
5 records with your counsel and come back
6 at some other time and continue. I have
7 no problem with that if that's your
8 preference. That's your call. So, I
9 leave that to you.
10 I mean, I don't want to take
11 advantage of your time today on Good
12 Friday, but I also don't want to take
13 advantage of the situation where, gee,
14 you would like to look at your job
15 referral history a bit. We are going to
16 go right through this. I'm going to
17 have very similar questions. And if you
18 would prefer to have some time with
19 Mr. Isaacs with these documents which
20 are available, I have no problem with
21 that. That's your call. You tell me.
22 MR. ISAACS: That wouldn't be a
23 bad idea.
24 THE WITNESS: That's up to you.
25 MR. ISAACS: That wouldn't be a
NATIONAL REPORTING INC. (877) 733-6373
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2 bad idea.
3 MR. MACK: Let's set a date a
4 week from today.
5 THE WITNESS: Before we go?
6 Q Yes, sir?
7 A On one skill like this, concrete,
8 I put that on every time I go out. When you
9 put your name on a list for a job, you're not
10 going to put a woodworker on drywall. So,
11 you put down the skills that you do. I put
12 down concrete. I don't put down woodwork,
13 but again, there is no certification for
14 concrete.
15 Q No, there isn't, but here's the
16 question, and the implication that you and
17 your lawyer should be talking about in this
18 next few days: There are allegations made to
19 me; allegations. That doesn't mean that they
20 are of any value whatsoever -- that you often
21 get the very best jobs, the Century Max jobs.
22 A There are a lot of companies.
23 Q Well, you have a big history with
24 Century Max.
25 A Yes. There are a lot of people
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2 making a lot more money than me with
3 different companies.
4 Q I'm not trying to compare. I
5 want to tell you one of the reasons why we
6 are here today.
7 MR. ISAACS: Listen to him for a
8 while.
9 Q Yes, please do, because I want to
10 try to give you guidance.
11 I'm trying to draw facts. I want
12 to give you an opportunity to explain things
13 to me.
14 Even if somebody called you on
15 the phone and told you: Hey, Mike, put down
16 welding this morning, because I'm going to be
17 requesting this afternoon a job with a
18 welding skill. Who says there's anything
19 wrong with that? Who says?
20 So, what I'm saying to you is
21 this, from the point of view of a know-
22 nothing, that's me. I'm just a lawyer. I'm
23 not a carpenter. I'm trying to read these
24 records and understand them and do my job for
25 Judge Haight. I see you add two skills,
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2 concrete and welding, at 9:00 o'clock or so
3 in the morning; maybe it's you or maybe it
4 isn't, but at least the records tell me it's
5 you. And then a few hours later, eight hours
6 later, up comes a job for Century Max which
7 is a good job which has concrete and welding
8 in it, and the fact is that if you hadn't
9 added those skills in the morning, you
10 wouldn't have got the job.
11 So, there's a side of me that
12 says; how come? Is that just coincidence or
13 is it because somebody told you, encouraged
14 you, or whatever?
15 I'm not asking you to answer the
16 question now. I'm just telling you why I'm
17 asking you the question.
18 There are a lot of job situations
19 in this job history which are very similar to
20 that. Its not a crime if somebody called you
21 up and told you, hey, I think it would be a
22 good idea to add a welding skill because I
23 have a great job for Century Max.
24 But if that's what happened, you
25 need to tell me that; and if it didn't
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2 happen, --
3 No. Don't answer me, Mr. Nee.
4 Your lawyer will be upset with you and with
5 me if you do.
6 MR. ISAACS: I appreciate your
7 laying this out for my client and
8 myself.
9 Q Mr. Nee, I see you go on the
10 out-of-work list a number of times when
11 you're working for Century Max, if I rely on
12 the benefits records. Maybe the benefits
13 records are inaccurate. I'm going to
14 subpoena Century Max and find out what your
15 payroll records are, so that there is no
16 question. But if the benefits records are
17 accurate, there are jobs when you go on the
18 out-of-work list, and there are a whole
19 series of them as I go through this here, and
20 you work for Century Max.
21 So, there's a question in my
22 mind: Should you be on the out-of-work list?
23 Why are you on the out-of-work list if you're
24 working for Century Max.
25 You can tell me: I'm not
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2 working; those records are wrong. You have
3 to tell me what the truth is, but you have to
4 think about these things, because I'm going
5 to ask you questions like that.
6 MR. ISAACS: I have gotten copies
7 of the other records so far. Would you
8 have any issue with providing me with
9 those records so that when we discuss
10 this issue --
11 MR. MACK: I'll provide you with
12 what the District Council has provided
13 me with very recently, but it doesn't
14 cover the whole period. But you can get
15 access to my benefits records sooner
16 than I can.
17 THE WITNESS: It's on the
18 computer.
19 MR. MACK: Yes.
20 I would appreciate it if you
21 would do that, because one of the
22 questions for you is why do you go on
23 the out-of-work list; because if the
24 records are accurate, you're working for
25 Century Max? That's a question and that
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2 would be something that I would want to
3 talk to my lawyer about. You don't have
4 to answer that question now, but that's
5 the subject matter.
6 There are other jobs that I have
7 found in going through this where you're
8 getting Century Max jobs and there's a
9 very interesting coincidence of skills
10 changes and add-ons, on the day on which
11 you're dispatched.
12 And me being a cynic, I ask the
13 question: Is that just good luck or is
14 someone encouraging you or have your
15 asked someone?
16 I have talked to people in your
17 position and there is no wrong answer.
18 The only answer that can be wrong is an
19 untruthful answer.
20 I'm not picking on you for this
21 question, but if someone said to me, a
22 little birdie spoke to me in the morning
23 and said let me put welding on, and then
24 when I put it on and then a good job
25 comes up, that doesn't inspire me to
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2 have confidence in the situation.
3 I have gone through your work
4 list. I would encourage you to go
5 through it with Mr. Isaacs. I'm going
6 to give you a copy of your benefits
7 contributions. I was going to mark it
8 anyway. I have information about the
9 entire period. I would encourage you to
10 look at this.
11 MR. ISAACS: Not to waste the
12 District Council's time in copying
13 things, the time period we are seeking
14 to discuss is from 2000 forward?
15 MR. MACK: He can get those
16 records. I know what is in the 2001,
17 because when I said to you earlier this
18 afternoon that in March of 2000 I had
19 determined by a telephone call --
20 because I have the authority to require
21 these records to be produced as a court
22 officer, that you were having benefits
23 paid at the times that you put yourself
24 on the out-of-work list in 2000. But
25 you should look at them and see. Maybe
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2 there's a mistake there. I have to rely
3 on the records, Mr. Nee.
4 Again, I have to tell you that I
5 have no authority to discipline anybody.
6 I'm just trying to find out what is
7 going on and understand it; all right?
8 THE WITNESS: That's the first
9 time I have seen those records.
10 MR. MACK: All right. I think
11 it's important that we take some time.
12 Let me go over and see if there
13 are other things that you should be
14 thinking about in this period so we can
15 proceed efficiently next time.
16 MR. ISAACS: Is there a person at
17 the District Council whom you have
18 contact with to get the benefits records
19 in case I or my client has a problem
20 getting this?
21 MR. MACK: Gary Rothman is
22 counsel, he is an associate of Jason's.
23 What you're going through on some
24 of these things, Mr. Nee -- I want to
25 give you an idea of some of the subjects
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2 that you should think about.
3 We have received, anonymously,
4 certain questions that I want you to
5 think about and that I will bring to
6 your attention.
7 I have taken a very strong view
8 with the District Council that if a shop
9 steward's report says that a carpenter
10 journeyman was on the job for seven
11 hours, and the shop steward's report
12 says that he's on the job for seven
13 hours, that doesn't mean that he can
14 leaf during the day and take off. If a
15 shop steward leaves early, his
16 obligation is to tell the business agent
17 that he or she is going, and get a
18 substitute to assume the
19 responsibilities.
20 Whether true or not, there have
21 been allegations made that on some jobs
22 you're occasionally, maybe more than
23 occasionally, not present for the full
24 workday. It's an allegation. It's just
25 a general question, but it's something
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2 that I want, going forward, because I
3 know you're considered a highly
4 qualified shop steward, I want to make
5 sure that you pay attention to the rules
6 of the District Council these days,
7 about ensuring that you're present for
8 the time, and what have you.
9 More significantly, more
10 significantly is that you're not
11 absolutely clear about how the 50/50
12 works. And so I have a job -- I can
13 tell you what the job is.
14 I have the shop steward reports
15 here. It's 900 Eighth Avenue that you
16 were the shop steward on?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes. That was last
18 year.
19 MR. MACK: So, one of the things
20 that I would be spending time with you
21 on is, I have some debate with you about
22 whether or not the carpenters that are
23 listed on your shop steward reports
24 should be a union or a company person,
25 and I have records to show you and
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2 questions to ask you about why is this
3 individual a requested person? How did
4 he come to be requested, and where is he
5 on the 50/50?
6 And one of the questions that has
7 been raised, is that you're not clear
8 about how the 50/50 works. And so I'm
9 going to ask you some specific questions
10 about particular people and as to why
11 they are considered a request if they
12 are working already, for instance, for
13 Century Max, somewhere else, or if they
14 are working at that very job, for
15 sometimes weeks or days, that they
16 should be considered a shape and not a
17 request. And yet they are considered om
18 your shop steward reports as a dispatch.
19 So, those are the types of
20 questions I'll be asking.
21 You can say: Listen, I don't
22 understand this 50/50. I don't know
23 what you're going to say. But I want to
24 give you an idea of what I'm going to be
25 asking you about.
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2 MR. ISAACS: One of the issues is
3 whether a company man is carried as a
4 request from the hall? Is that --
5 MR. MACK: There's a request
6 system, and I'll bring you up-to-date on
7 something the District Council and the
8 Government and I are discussing. It's
9 going to be a subject for Judge Haight
10 to think about; I have no prediction;
11 and that's that the 50/50 system that's
12 supposed to be working to ensure that
13 people are being pulled off the
14 out-of-work list works in a particularly
15 strange way. And it does certainly with
16 Century Max.
17 And it's my view that a good,
18 very high portion of the Century Max
19 employees -- excuse me, the carpenters
20 on this site are really company men.
21 They have long histories with Century
22 Max. Sometimes they are already working
23 for Century Max. They go on the list
24 for an hour or a day, and then they are
25 requested and they are counted as a hall
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2 person.
3 You may tell me I don't know what
4 this 50/50 is. That was Jerry
5 Philbin's, or whoever else's it was, but
6 I am going to ask you about the 50/50.
7 I think that pretty much
8 summarizes what I'm going to be asking
9