Please Donate to cover costs and finance law suits by NY Carpenters 1
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
3
Plaintiff,
4
-against- Index No.
5 90 CIV.5722 (CSH)
DISTRICT COUNCIL OF NEW YORK CITY AND
6 VICINITY OF THE UNITED BROTHERHOOD OF
CARPENTERS AND JOINERS OF AMERICA, et al.,
7
Defendants
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9
10
11 December 17, 2003
10:15 a.m.
12
13
14 DEPOSITION of ALBERT DeROSS, taken by
15 Federal District Court Judge Charles S. Haight,
16 pursuant to Agreement and Court Order, held at the
17 office of Doar Rieck & Mack, Esqs., 217 Broadway,
18 New York, New York 10007, before Ken Sofronski, a
19 Stenotype Reporter and Notary Public of the State
20 of New York.
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25
2
1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2
3 DOAR RIECK & MACK, ESQS.
Attorneys for Federal District Court
4 Judge Charles S. Haight
217 Broadway
5 New York, New York 10007
BY: WALTER MACK, ESQ.
6
7
O'DWYER & BERNSTEIN, LLP
8 Attorneys for Defendant District
Council of Carpenters
9 52 Duane Street
New York, New York 10007
10 BY: GARY ROTHMAN, ESQ., OF COUNSEL
11
12 RUSKIN MOSCOU FALTICHEK, P.C.
Attorneys for Sorbara Construction
13 and The Witness
190 EAB Plaza
14 Uniondale, New York 11556
BY: ALEXANDER G. BATEMAN, JR., ESQ., OF
15 COUNSEL
16
17 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Attorneys for USA
18 33 Whitehall Street
New York, New York 10007
19 BY: EDWARD SCARVALONE, ESQ., OF COUNSEL
20
21 A L S O P R E S E N T
22 DONALD T. SOBOCIENSKI
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24
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1 * * * * * * * * * * *
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3 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that
4 the filing and sealing of the within
5 examination be and the same are hereby waived;
6 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that
7 all objections except as to the form of the
8 question be and the same are hereby reserved
9 to the time of the trial;
10 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that
11 the within examination may be sworn to before
12 any Notary Public with the same force and
13 effect as if sworn to before a Judge of this
14 Court;
15 IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that
16 the transcript is to be certified by the
17 Reporter.
18
19 * * * * * * * * * * *
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1 Proceedings 4
2 MR. MACK: Let me thank you, Mr.
3 DeRoss, for coming here today during
4 this holiday period. I want to take a
5 pretty significant period of time
6 initially to tell you who I am and what
7 is happening, who the people are in the
8 room and eventually you will be sworn
9 in as a witness.
10 I will try to explain all of your
11 rights and answer whatever questions
12 you may have and then cover what is
13 probably a fairly brief number of jobs
14 in which I am interested in and maybe
15 cover a couple of other topics. We
16 should be done here really before lunch
17 if everything goes well. I know how
18 significant your presence is to a job
19 site and I have had the privilege of
20 talking to Mr. McGowan and Mr.
21 Fitzgerald, as you are probably aware,
22 so I will try to be as efficient as I
23 can be in trying to deal with the
24 information that I need to have.
25 First of all I am an independent
1 Proceedings 5
2 investigator appointed by a federal
3 judge sitting in the Southern District
4 of New York, Judge Haight. You may
5 know this, but it is part of my routine
6 to make sure that every witness who
7 appears before me has the benefit of
8 basically what is a routine to try to
9 explain what is happening and what is
10 going on. Even if you know this
11 information, it is my job to ensure
12 that you do know it.
13 I am appointed by the judge with
14 the consent of the United States
15 Government and District Council of
16 Carpenters who agreed to basically my
17 appointment by the judge. In that
18 Order which your attorney, Mr. Bateman,
19 has a copy of, it pretty much sets
20 forth what my duties and obligations
21 are. In essence, in very simple
22 fashion, it is to look into various
23 aspects of the District Council of
24 Carpenters hiring program and how those
25 programs work. So that my role is
1 Proceedings 6
2 really primarily investigative. I have
3 no authority -- I am not a prosecutor.
4 I work for the court and basically I
5 don't have power to discipline. I have
6 the power to try to discover facts and
7 determine things which are true or
8 untrue, but I have no authority in the
9 District Council of Carpenters to
10 discipline anyone.
11 I know you are a union member, I
12 know that, but you should understand
13 that they retain all of the powers of
14 discipline and my job is to assess
15 information, write reports to the court
16 and in an effort to ensure that the
17 parties to the litigation, which is a
18 case brought many years ago by the
19 United States involving the District
20 Council that I routinely invite the
21 parties to participate in my more
22 formal presentation, which this is.
23 The people or the person
24 representing the District Council of
25 Carpenters today is Gary Rothman. He
1 Proceedings 7
2 is the gentleman with the mustache and
3 basically he is the lawyer which
4 represents the District Council of
5 Carpenters and this handsome gentleman
6 to my left here is an assistant United
7 States attorney from the Civil Division
8 of the United States Attorney's Office
9 representing the United States of
10 America. His name is Ed Scarvalone.
11 They are here at my invitation because
12 I want to ensure that one, they know
13 what I am doing and that if, in fact,
14 there are questions that either of them
15 have or matters that I have failed to
16 bring out or matters that are of
17 significance to them, they have the
18 opportunity to ensure that I ask
19 questions that are important to them or
20 specifically ask questions themselves.
21 The gentleman sitting to my
22 right, I don't know if you have met
23 before, but his name is Don
24 Sobocienski. He works with me. He is
25 part of the independent investigator
1 Proceedings 8
2 team whose job it is to gather data and
3 to try to determine the circumstances
4 of things that are important in my
5 mind. He has much more detailed
6 knowledge of many things than I do and
7 basically I do what he asks me to do
8 and he may ask a few questions as well,
9 but that is who he is.
10 The gentleman sitting to your
11 right is Mr. Bateman, who I understand
12 today is your counsel and will be
13 assisting you as you wish as we proceed
14 during what is in many ways a
15 deposition. What I mean by that, that
16 in a few moments you will be sworn and
17 I will be asking you questions about
18 particular matters that are of
19 consequence to me.
20 Now, in essence, the reason you
21 are here today is a little bit more
22 complex than normal. Some time ago in
23 the summer, the District Court Judge
24 Haight granted my request with the
25 consent of both the government and
1 Proceedings 9
2 District Council to have the authority
3 to subpoena Sorbara Construction and
4 specific individuals at Sorbara
5 Construction. That is because I don't
6 know what was in Judge Haight's mind,
7 but at least he consented to my request
8 for a subpoena which was served for
9 documents and for various individuals
10 to appear before me to respond to the
11 assignment of shop stewards on
12 particular jobs that Sorbara
13 Construction was working on.
14 Mr. Bateman and I have talked
15 from time to time since then and he is
16 basically the individual responsible on
17 behalf of the company, as well as
18 specific individuals, to ensure that my
19 wishes as an agent of the court are
20 complied with and he has in the course
21 of the matters represented Mr.
22 Fitzgerald, who testified under oath
23 here pretty much on similar topics and
24 has produced documents on behalf of the
25 company concerning the assignment of
1 Proceedings 10
2 carpenters to various job sites in the
3 last several years in the city and the
4 various boroughs, but primarily
5 Manhattan.
6 You are here today because I
7 think he had the wisdom to recognize if
8 you didn't appear today, I would obtain
9 a subpoena for your presence and you
10 would be forced to come at a time much
11 more of my own chosing and it saves a
12 lot of inconvenience and waste of time.
13 That is the reason why you are here
14 today and basically the reason the
15 proceeding is somewhat formal is
16 because the matters are at least in my
17 view of some significance.
18 I want to make sure that every
19 witness who appears before me has given
20 some real time and attention to the
21 answers that they give and that they
22 are accurate and you will be under oath
23 and I will go through all of your
24 rights as a witness. They are the
25 same. This is not a grand jury. I am
1 Proceedings 11
2 not a prosecutor and what I will say,
3 which is the most important thing I
4 will probably say all today to you, is
5 when you answer a question, that it be
6 the truth, the whole truth and nothing
7 but the truth. You will be not only
8 under oath, but because I am an agent
9 of the court, that should there be a
10 conclusion at some time that you
11 intentionally sought to mislead me or
12 deceive me or withhold information from
13 me because you are protecting someone
14 or you just didn't want to talk to a
15 government type, and again I don't work
16 for the government. The government is
17 represented here by Mr. Scarvalone. I
18 represent the District Court.
19 So sometimes witnesses make the
20 mistake of withholding information or I
21 am not going to tell the judge or the
22 government that or only tell 10 or 15
23 or 80 percent of the truth. The law is
24 very clear. I am entitled to 100
25 percent of the truth as best you can
1 Proceedings 12
2 recall. Some witnesses make a mistake
3 and say I don't recall when they do
4 recall. I will tell you that because I
5 have a truth finding function so if I
6 determine a witness has lied to me with
7 intent to mislead me or simply not find
8 out what the truth is, I will make a
9 recommendation to the United States
10 Attorney's Office that they consider it
11 for criminal prosecution or contempt.
12 I don't want there to be any
13 mistakes about that. There have been
14 people who have appeared before me and
15 I won't mention names and I am not
16 talking about Sorbara representatives
17 to be perfectly honest, I am talking
18 about others who appeared before me who
19 may have fallen prey to the concept
20 that they can lie or not tell all of
21 the truth or maybe try to deceive me or
22 mislead me because maybe they are
23 protecting themselves or fellow
24 carpenters or protecting other people
25 who are close associates and friends.
1 Proceedings 13
2 I am sure Mr. Bateman has told
3 you, I am sure he has. I have
4 confidence in his abilities that you
5 have to tell the truth. That is the
6 only real way that I can proceed. This
7 is not a criminal investigation. I
8 mean there is no one who can predict
9 that the truth is going to result in
10 discipline or some punishment to
11 someone. The only way, at least in my
12 investigations, that someone who is a
13 witness can run into a problem is if
14 they lie under oath to me because no
15 one can really predict that because a
16 particular carpenter was assigned in a
17 particular time and in a particular way
18 that that is worthy of penalty.
19 I am just trying to find out who
20 certain carpenters and specific
21 carpenters got to specific sites and
22 how they got there. So I can't really
23 say one way is wrong, one way is right.
24 Those are matters for the judges and
25 perhaps for the parties to assess and
1 Proceedings 14
2 try to figure out.
3 There is a concept, gee, if I say
4 this, I will be protecting someone or
5 it is better for the company if I say
6 this, though I know the truth is
7 totally different. There is no way
8 that anyone could predict that a
9 particular way a carpenter got assigned
10 to a particular location is worthy of
11 sanction or not.
12 The one thing I can predict is
13 that if somebody lies under oath to me
14 in a proceeding for whatever reason or
15 tries to tell me something which they
16 know to be untrue, that that will make
17 life much more difficult for them and
18 it might result in a reference to a
19 prosecutor for assessment as to whether
20 a criminal matter should be brought.
21 So I say this to you, what I have
22 said to pretty much every witness that
23 has appeared, and I am singling you
24 out, I have said the same things to
25 George and Tom when they appeared here.
1 Proceedings 15
2 The idea is tell the truth. It is as
3 simple as that. I am sure you will
4 because it would not be smart for you
5 to tell something untrue.
6 You as a witness here have a
7 number of rights that I want to go
8 through and make sure you understand.
9 As I say, you will be placed under
10 oath. I will try to ask clear
11 questions. No one is trying to be
12 unfair, believe me. Nothing would make
13 the judge more unhappy with me than if
14 I ask questions that were unfair or in
15 some way unfair to you. This
16 proceeding is designed to be as fair to
17 you as I can possibly make it because I
18 will rely upon the fact that what you
19 tell me is the truth, but there are a
20 number of things which you have the
21 right to do. If you don't understand
22 the question, tell me.
23 Mr. Bateman has been here before.
24 He is an experienced individual. He is
25 here to defend and ensure that this
1 Proceedings 16
2 proceeding is conducted fairly. If you
3 need to talk about any subject with
4 him, just say I would like a few
5 minutes to go out and discuss the
6 matter. I am not sure what I should do
7 here. That is why he is here. He is
8 here as your attorney. I will go
9 through today what that may mean. I am
10 sure he has advised you of this
11 potential conflict, but basically it is
12 something that you need to hear about
13 just to make sure.
14 Maybe I will cover it now while I
15 am on the topic. He has represented
16 George Fitzgerald. He has also
17 represented the company in terms of
18 production of documents and in
19 discussions with me about what the
20 company policies are with respect to
21 assigning of carpenters and shop
22 stewards on the job sites that Sorbara
23 worked at. He is here today though to
24 represent you, Albert DeRoss, and his
25 job here is to ensure that you are
1 Proceedings 17
2 personally represented. He has an
3 ethical obligation to ensure that he is
4 not conflicted. In other words, that
5 his prior representation which
6 continues of Mr. Fitzgerald and his
7 prior representation of the company do
8 not prevent him from giving you the
9 best individual advice and there at
10 least is a possibility here there will
11 be a conflict between what George told
12 me and what the documents say and what
13 you have to say. There is nothing
14 wrong with that from a factual point of
15 view. What is important is the legal
16 advice you get not be impeded or
17 conflicted out. He is here to
18 represent you in the first instance.
19 That is Mr. Bateman's job, to ensure
20 that he is not conflicted because he is
21 ethically required to ensure that he
22 can't say I am here to help Albert
23 DeRoss and at the same time making
24 decisions that help George or the
25 company. His job here today is to
1 Proceedings 18
2 watch over you and to assist you in
3 answering questions and making sure if
4 he feels that he is prevented from
5 doing this, it is his obligation to
6 announce that and say I don't feel
7 given what has happened here that I can
8 continue to represent Mr. DeRoss, but
9 also you should understand and I want
10 to make sure you do as best I can
11 explain, that his obligation here is to
12 you as far as I am concerned. In terms
13 of gathering the truth, I don't care if
14 there is a conflict in testimony
15 between you and the company
16 representatives and between you and
17 George. My job is to find out what
18 really happened, but you may care, you
19 may feel hey, I will not protect George
20 and I have high respect for you as
21 George based on his reputation, but
22 there may be an inconsistency here.
23 You need to be accurate yourself.
24 Should somebody come to you and
25 say Albert, why did you say one thing
1 Proceedings 19
2 when you knew that the opposite was
3 true. The answer can't be, well, I was
4 trying to protect George or the company
5 or I was trying to protect a shop
6 steward that I knew. Those are not
7 excuses that permit you to lie under
8 oath.
9 So I want to make sure you are
10 content with having Mr. Bateman, who is
11 an attorney for the company and an
12 attorney for George Fitzgerald
13 represent you here today. Are you
14 content with him as counsel?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am.
16 MR. MACK: If at any time you
17 feel somewhat concerned about that, you
18 should raise that during the course of
19 the proceeding because I would stop the
20 proceeding and allow you to get
21 separate counsel were that necessary in
22 your mind. You are the most important
23 person in this room today in terms of
24 what you have to say and your
25 understanding the questions and giving
1 Proceedings 20
2 the answers. That is the best way to
3 look at it.
4 Now I also say the following.
5 This is a proceeding designed to gather
6 facts about matters dealing with the
7 placement or assignment of carpenters
8 to job sites in the city. Even though
9 Mr. Scarvalone is from the United
10 States Attorney's Office, he works in
11 the Civil Division. He is not a
12 prosecutor. He is here in his aspect
13 of a party to this litigation that has
14 gone on for years in terms of the
15 relationship of the carpenters and the
16 government in terms of various other
17 developments or rules that have been
18 put in place.
19 As you already see -- by the way
20 if I talk too fast or you talk too
21 fast, the reporter who is the hardest
22 working person in the room, will slow
23 us down and tell us that we need to
24 speak more slowly. I am the culprit
25 because I talk pretty quickly.
1 Proceedings 21
2 During the questioning today you
3 should speak rather than nod your head
4 or things of that nature because the
5 purpose of the reporter being here is
6 to permit me to ensure that I have an
7 accurate record of what you told me and
8 what was said. He is the hardest
9 working person here.
10 Let me finish with where I was
11 going, which was this is a civil
12 matter, not a criminal matter.
13 However, if I should ask a question
14 which in your view might tend to
15 incriminate you, I can't conceive of a
16 question that would, but I give this
17 warning to everyone, and you feel for
18 some reason that it might tend to
19 incriminate you in a criminal context,
20 you have the right to assert the fifth
21 amendment as every witness here. You
22 are not being singled out for this.
23 What I would suggest if you have a
24 question on that topic, you should talk
25 to Mr. Bateman about it because if you
1 Proceedings 22
2 do assert the fifth amendment, it may
3 have some impact one, at your company.
4 I don't know what their policy is, and
5 second of all, it might permit me to
6 draw some inference of some kind about
7 a topic. I might say if Mr. DeRoss
8 didn't answer this question, maybe my
9 view of what really happened here
10 occurred, but that is something I would
11 do carefully. I said to you that I
12 would give the fifth amendment notice.
13 It is not a warning, it is a notice.
14 If I should ask a question that you are
15 concerned about that might intend to
16 incriminate you, that what you should
17 do is talk to Mr. Bateman and then
18 decide whether you do indeed wish to
19 assert it because you have that right.
20 Okay?
21 THE WITNESS: Yes.
22 MR. MACK: Let me see if there is
23 anything else I want to talk to you
24 about.
25 Let me ask this, do you have any
1 Proceedings 23
2 questions you would like to ask me
3 about why we are here, what is
4 happening and what your rights are,
5 anything at all that I have tried to
6 cover?
7 THE WITNESS: No. I think you
8 have covered almost everything.
9 MR. MACK: Is there anything else
10 you want to say or you need to say or
11 think needed to be said before we
12 start?
13 MR. BATEMAN: No. I think you
14 have covered it all.
15 MR. MACK: Mr. Rothman, anything
16 you would like to add or subtract in
17 comments?
18 MR. ROTHMAN: No, sir.
19 MR. MACK: Mr. Scarvalone?
20 MR. SCARVALONE: Nothing to add.
21 MR. MACK: Let me ask if I may
22 that the witness be sworn.
23 A L B E R T D E R O S S, having been sworn by a
24 Notary Public of the State of New York, was
25 examined and testified as follows:
1 DeRoss 24
2 EXAMINATION BY MR. MACK:
3 Q Could you just state and spell your
4 name?
5 A Albert DeRoss, D-e-R-o-s-s.
6 Q Mr. DeRoss, would you tell us how you
7 are employed?
8 A Employed through Sorbara Construction
9 as a superintendent.
10 Q Could you, and don't be shocked at some
11 of the questions, I know it is an introductory
12 period, I need to establish certain things so it is
13 basically I am going through a few basic things and
14 then we will focus on the issues that are most
15 important.
16 Could you give me some idea of what the
17 duties of a superintendent are at Sorbara?
18 A The duties are to coordinate my trades,
19 meet schedules, concrete pours, deadlines, make
20 sure the job is going correctly efficiently.
21 Q I will always give you a time to finish
22 your answer and you will have a time and, of
23 course, Mr. Bateman will give you an opportunity if
24 he has questions that need to be asked here so the
25 record is complete. There wouldn't be any effort
1 DeRoss 25
2 to deny you to say anything you want to say so your
3 answers are complete. I understand the subject
4 matter. When you say coordinate your trades, would
5 you just identify the trades that you are referring
6 to?
7 A I would coordinate my carpenters, my
8 laborers, the lathers, masons, my surveyors and the
9 crane.
10 Q Carpenters, laborers, surveyors, crane?
11 A Lathers, masons.
12 Q You yourself, if I am correct, are a
13 carpenter, you still maintain membership in the
14 carpenters' union?
15 A Yes, I do.
16 Q That union is the local union that you
17 are a member of?
18 A I am in Local 926.
19 Q That is a Brooklyn local?
20 A Yes, it is.
21 Q How long have you been a member of
22 Local 926?
23 A I was in another local before that,
24 another carpenter local in Staten Island.
25 Q What was the number of that?
1 DeRoss 26
2 A 20 and I started in Local 20 I believe
3 in 1983 and I think I transferred out of there in
4 '95.
5 Q In '95 you transferred to 926?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Was there a particular reason you
8 changed your residence?
9 A No. There was more work at the time in
10 Brooklyn.
11 Q When did you begin your employment with
12 Sorbara?
13 A The exact date, I don't know. I would
14 believe it has to be December, 1998.
15 Q What were the circumstances of your
16 hiring at Sorbara, how did you come to be a Sorbara
17 employee?
18 A I was hired by George Fitzgerald as a
19 carpenter. I worked as a carpenter for George a
20 few months and I was offered a carpenter foreman
21 position so I took that position. I stayed with
22 George on numerous jobs and when the company got
23 different jobs I became a general carpenter foreman
24 and then I became a superintendent for the same
25 company.
1 DeRoss 27
2 Q Now although I may have a superficial
3 understanding of these terms, please be patient as
4 I ask about them. The position that George
5 Fitzgerald originally hired you for was at a
6 particular job site for a position?
7 A There was a carpenter at 401 Chambers
8 Street, Battery Park. I came there as a carpenter.
9 Q That was in 1998?
10 A I believe so.
11 Q When you say hired, you mean a
12 journeyman carpenter?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Did he request you specifically, when
15 you say hired you, what does that actually mean?
16 A I was shaping the job.
17 Q So was that the first time that you met
18 George, George Fitzgerald and I will be clear that
19 is who I am talking about?
20 A Yes, it was.
21 Q Was there any particular reason that
22 George hired you as far as you know at that
23 particular time?
24 A At that particular time I was working
25 for Scalmandre across the street and they were
1 DeRoss 28
2 finishing up and the super on that job, said go
3 across the street, they are looking for men. They
4 are starting out brand new.
5 Q Who was the super at the Scalmandre
6 job?
7 A Michael Miranda.
8 Q He was a Scalmandre super?
9 A Yes, he was.
10 Q Had you met at that time, when I say at
11 that time I am talking about around the end of that
12 Scalmandre job, an individual by the name of John
13 Corrigan?
14 A Did I meet him with Scalmandre?
15 Q My question was did you know him at the
16 time that you followed Mr. Miranda's advice?
17 A No.
18 Q When did you first meet John Corrigan?
19 A When I started work for Sorbara at 401
20 Chambers Street. I had to produce my work card to
21 him.
22 Q So John was the shop steward at 401
23 Chambers?
24 A Yes, he was.
25 Q That was the first time that you had
1 DeRoss 29
2 met Mr. Corrigan?
3 A Yes.
4 Q How would you describe your
5 relationship with Mr. Corrigan today?
6 A We both carry the same book, he is a
7 fellow carpenter. That's about it.
8 Q Would you describe your relationship
9 with him as anything beyond professional?
10 A No.
11 Q Have you socialized with John Corrigan?
12 A No.
13 Q Have you discussed your presence today
14 with John Corrigan?
15 A No.
16 Q As you sit here today are you aware of
17 any of the skills and training of John Corrigan?
18 A No.
19 Q When you were initially hired by
20 Mr. Fitzgerald for the 401 Chambers, you were hired
21 and worked under the stewardship of John Corrigan?
22 A Yes.
23 Q That lasted approximately how long
24 before you were hired as a carpenter foreman by
25 Mr. Fitzgerald?
1 DeRoss 30
2 A Maybe two months on that same project.
3 Q In your own words how did it come about
4 that you became carpenter foreman, was there any
5 particular things that occurred or was it just
6 assessment of your skills and competency?
7 A Exactly George started with a new crew
8 and I was trying to put one together and he seen
9 the capability I had and that is how it came about.
10 Q Would it be fair to state that George
11 Fitzgerald in your mind is a highly professional
12 competent construction superintendent?
13 A Yes, he is.
14 Q Would it also be fair to state that his
15 reputation for honesty and integrity and competency
16 is of the highest?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Could you tell me the difference
19 between a carpenter foreman and a general carpenter
20 foreman, what does that mean?
21 A A carpenter foreman, there is a couple
22 of areas on the job. There is three carpenter
23 foreman on one building.
24 Q Explain how they are divided?
25 A My job was to frame the floor
1 DeRoss 31
2 underneath. That was called the pin up foreman.
3 There is another carpenter foreman on top of the
4 deck that puts the flat deck out. George
5 Fitzgerald would oversee myself and the other
6 carpenter foremen and tell us what he expected from
7 us, where he wanted to be by the end of the day.
8 That is what I had to do.
9 Q I missed the third, pin up flat deck?
10 A And George was the general. I had to
11 take care of a third of the carpenter force on that
12 job.
13 Q What was your assignment there at 401
14 Chambers, were you a pin up?
15 A I was the pin up foreman.
16 Q Do you remember who the flat deck
17 foreman was?
18 A Rowan Titley.
19 Q I think you told me there came a time
20 when you became a general carpenter foreman, can
21 you put a time, a date, an approximate date on it?
22 A 60th Street and Park Avenue. I know
23 the job site. I don't recall the date. It had to
24 be a year after. I don't recall the date.
25 Q It would be fair to state that you
1 DeRoss 32
2 became a general carpenter foreman for Sorbara
3 Construction at or about the time of the job around
4 60th Street and Park Avenue?
5 A Yes. I definitely became the general
6 carpenter foreman half way through 515 Park Avenue.
7 Q Did you ever meet a carpenter by the
8 name of Michael Lynch?
9 A Yes, I did.
10 Q Can you tell me the circumstances of
11 how you first met that gentleman?
12 A He was a carpenter that worked under us
13 on the pin up floor.
14 Q Can you put an approximate date of when
15 you first met Mr. Lynch either by job site or by
16 date?
17 A I believe, I am not 100 percent, I
18 think he was on 401 Chambers Street. I deal with a
19 lot of carpenters. I am not sure.
20 Q All I am interested in is for you to
21 make your best effort. If you don't recall
22 something, you don't recall?
23 A I am sure Mr. Bateman has told you
24 don't guess or speculate. You are doing fine. Do
25 the best you can. Your best belief is you met
1 DeRoss 33
2 Mr. Lynch at 401 Chambers job site?
3 A I believe. I am not 100 percent.
4 Q Did he have any particular position or
5 was he a journeyman carpenter?
6 A Journeyman carpenter.
7 Q Are you familiar with the various
8 construction safety courses given by OSHA?
9 A No.
10 Q If I were to ask you about the various
11 courses and how long they are and what they entail,
12 would you be able to answer those questions?
13 A I might.
14 Q Could you tell me what you do know or
15 at least in a general sense of how many courses
16 there are and how they are distinguished?
17 A I know of a shop steward certificate
18 because I did take the course myself.
19 Q Does that have a specific, if you know,
20 OSHA description?
21 A I don't know.
22 Q What other certificate or specific
23 training program that OSHA gives are you familiar
24 with? I am just trying to figure out what you
25 know.
1 DeRoss 34
2 A I don't even know that is an OSHA
3 certificate. I know that is a certificate the
4 District Council has.
5 Q How about any other certificate that
6 has OSHA attached to it in your mind?
7 A I don't know.
8 Q Have you ever heard of a certificate
9 called a 40 hour OSHA certificate?
10 A No.
11 Q Have you ever had a conversation with
12 anyone that contained a 40 hour OSHA certificate or
13 40 hour OSHA course?
14 A No.
15 Q Same questions about a 10 hour OSHA
16 certificate or 10 hour course?
17 A No.
18 Q Would it be fair to state at least in
19 your mind you couldn't tell me anything about
20 either of those courses or certificates?
21 A No. As far as my knowledge, I know the
22 shop steward certificate.
23 MR. MACK: I would like to take a
24 five minute break namely for me.
25 (A brief recess was taken)
1 DeRoss 35
2 Q I will continue to try to be as
3 efficient as possible because I know it is
4 important to get you back to work. You are still
5 under oath. Everything that I have said to you
6 before continues to be in place and obviously if
7 you need a break or a question to ask, you can
8 leave the room with Mr. Bateman to discuss anything
9 that comes up.
10 During the break I loaned you a copy of
11 what has been previously marked and these little
12 marks, I have the original exhibit, I hold onto the
13 one -- it has a little orange tag. The number
14 means absolutely nothing. It just allows me to
15 keep track of what documents I am using at the
16 time. So the specific document that you have a
17 copy of has been marked SGF 2. I want to ask you
18 some questions about that particular job site in a
19 moment, so hopefully you have had a brief
20 opportunity to look at it, but I want to point out
21 that virtually all of the exhibits I am showing
22 today to you will be documents that I received from
23 the District Council of Carpenters, so they are not
24 Sorbara records, nor do I have -- I believe them to
25 be your records. You may never have sent records
1 DeRoss 36
2 like this before and they may contain information
3 that is not accurate or is accurate and some of my
4 questions will be designed to get what Albert
5 DeRoss' view is of this job site and whether the
6 information is reliable or unreliable in your own
7 mind. I don't want you to tell me since there is a
8 record, that it must have happened. It is a record
9 that I have received from the District Council of
10 Carpenters and it may be accurate or inaccurate.
11 In fact, if one were to surmise what I am doing
12 here today, it is to find out whether some of these
13 records are accurate or not. I am going to get
14 your view and your knowledge about the meaning of
15 some of these records.
16 I do want to ask lest I forget it, that
17 you yourself, if you do have records of your own as
18 distinct from the company because the company has
19 been subpoenaed for every record pertaining to a
20 particular assignment of carpenters basically in
21 the last three to four years, so I have copies of
22 those and Mr. Bateman has produced those for me, so
23 if there is some record that you have, for
24 instance, about some of these job sites, your own
25 personal records that you may have pertaining to
1 DeRoss 37
2 the subject that we talk about, that Sorbara
3 doesn't have, you should tell Mr. Bateman that
4 because his obligation is to ensure that I have
5 every record that concerns the topics we are
6 talking about and I think, I believe I have those
7 records as of this time. If it turns out to be
8 different, you should tell him, so he can produce
9 those records for me.
10 Now I have a couple of basic questions
11 that I neglected to ask before. Are you yourself,
12 in fact, a certified carpenter shop steward?
13 A Yes.
14 Q What training did you receive in that
15 regard?
16 A I took the 40 hour basic course at the
17 District Council.
18 Q Do you have any other particular
19 schools or certificates that you yourself have with
20 respect to construction beyond that shop steward
21 course?
22 A I had a HAZMAT certificate. I took
23 that course. I had the certificate and I let it
24 lapse. There was no reason to keep it up and
25 previously I just took -- let me back up.
1 DeRoss 38
2 I took a course, but it has nothing to
3 do with the District Council. It was a city safety
4 manager course. I took a 40 hour course and I went
5 and took the city safety test with the Department
6 of Buildings. I passed the test and I sent my
7 application in for a license.
8 Q Can you give me some timing on when you
9 took the course?
10 A July to August of this year.
11 Q 2003?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Who gives that course?
14 A I went through the District Council of
15 Laborers.
16 Q So once you get your certificate, does
17 that mean you are certtified as a city safety
18 manager at particular construction sites?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Did you take that course as a result of
21 any recommendation by Sorbara or someone else or
22 was that --
23 A Just a few gentlemen on the job and I
24 went because it was something good to have of my
25 own.
1 DeRoss 39
2 Q Did you have maybe a CPR course or any
3 other particular courses that we have not covered?
4 A No.
5 Q I know you said no, but I want to make
6 sure we have it covered.
7 A No.
8 Q Just one other general question which I
9 will ask now, in the time that you served on the
10 same job sites as John Corrigan, did you ever have
11 reason to question his competency, skill, devotion
12 or professionalism?
13 A No, I never questioned his skill.
14 Q Did you ever observe something, hear
15 something, see something on a construction site in
16 which your personal view as a professional in the
17 construction trade would be that John Corrigan did
18 not meet professional standards as a shop steward
19 carpenter?
20 A No.
21 Q Let's go to what I describe and your
22 description is more important to me, is the job
23 site here that is the subject of this carpenter
24 record marked SGF 2, which you should have a copy
25 of in front of you.
1 DeRoss 40
2 A Yes.
3 Q And the second page of that exhibit
4 refers to a job ID at 26th and 6th Avenue. Do you
5 see that?
6 A Yes, I do.
7 Q Are you familiar with that job site?
8 A Yes, I am.
9 Q How would you term that, what is the
10 name you would apply to that job site?
11 A I was the supervisor on this job.
12 Q Do you have a recollection of how you
13 first became knowledgeable about that site, in
14 other words, what was your first connection with
15 that job site?
16 A George Fitzgerald.
17 Q Just explain it to me how you came to
18 be there?
19 A I was finishing up a job, which I don't
20 recall where I was before that, and George was
21 starting a job -- George's job finished up before
22 mine did and George went to 26th Street to start
23 the 26th Street job, waiting for his job to start
24 which was 23rd Street, so after I finished my job,
25 I don't remember where I was, I went to 26th Street
1 DeRoss 41
2 to take that job over.
3 Q Can you give me some idea what type of
4 job it is?
5 A This is called 776 Avenue of the
6 Americas, capital of Chelsea, 40 story high-rise.
7 Q Were you involved with this job or
8 project before a shop steward was assigned or
9 after?
10 A No, after.
11 Q What is your understanding of the
12 method as to how a carpenter shop steward gets
13 assigned to a particular job?
14 A I personally call the District Council,
15 speak to the businessman, journeyman or business
16 agent in that area the job is going to be and I
17 tell them I am going to start the job in two or
18 three weeks and I need a shop steward.
19 Q Do you request that that shop steward
20 have any particular skills?
21 A I tell them it is a concrete job.
22 Q Have you ever told a business
23 representative of a carpenter local that the shop
24 steward on a job that you were responsible for have
25 any skills beyond concrete?
1 DeRoss 42
2 A No.
3 Q Have you ever written a document that
4 was to be sent to the District Council of
5 Carpenters or local carpenter union in which you
6 asked that a shop steward could be assigned have
7 particular skills?
8 A No.
9 Q Have you ever seen a document similar
10 to either of the two pages SGF 2 in your role or in
11 your position as an employee of Sorbara
12 Construction?
13 A Like this, the first time I seen
14 something like this was a few days ago.
15 Q With Mr. Bateman?
16 A Yes.
17 Q So let me go for the benefit of
18 Mr. Rothman and then and Mr. Scarvalone's advice
19 and counsel, I will try to tell you what this form
20 purports or looks like it says. What I would like
21 to do, as I understand your testimony you had
22 nothing to do with the assignment of this shop
23 steward to this location any way?
24 A That's correct.
25 Q There is on the second page, if you
1 DeRoss 43
2 would look for me, you will see that there is a
3 skill set about 40 percent of the way down on the
4 second page. It starts off saying 10 hour OSHA
5 certified and then it goes on to say concrete CPR
6 certified and so on.
7 Did you yourself to the best of your
8 knowledge ever have a conversation or come to learn
9 that the shop steward at this job site needed those
10 skills?
11 A No.
12 Q Were they ever the subject of
13 discussion with anybody including Mr. Corrigan?
14 A No.
15 Q I know I asked this question, but this
16 document might have refreshed your recollection,
17 did you ever talk to Mr. Corrigan about any of
18 these skills listed here on this page?
19 A No.
20 Q Have you ever talked to George
21 Fitzgerald about this job site and the skills that
22 he felt he required that the shop steward have?
23 A No.
24 Q So as you sit here today you cannot
25 give me any information of any kind as to where the
1 DeRoss 44
2 skilled classifications came from that are
3 reflected on this exhibit?
4 A No, I never -- I was just told to, if
5 you are starting a job you tell them it is a
6 concrete job. If it was sheet rock, I would tell
7 them it was a sheet rock job. As far as my
8 knowledge that is all you had to do.
9 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: When you
10 arrived at this job site, 26th and 6th,
11 the capital of Chelsea, the steward was
12 already in place?
13 THE WITNESS: Yes.
14 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: That was
15 Mr. Corrigan, right?
16 THE WITNESS: Yes.
17 MR. ROTHMAN: Do you have an
18 opinion as to the appropriateness or
19 necessity of these skills for that job?
20 THE WITNESS: I don't understand.
21 MR. ROTHMAN: As you look at the
22 skills that are listed here that were
23 requested, in your opinion are they
24 appropriate for that job?
25 MR. MACK: I don't know what 10
1 DeRoss 45
2 hour OSHA is, do you?
3 THE WITNESS: No.
4 MR. ROTHMAN: What about any of
5 the others?
6 THE WITNESS: CPR is great to
7 have somebody on the job like that. I
8 don't know what the OSHA is. Concrete,
9 the knowledge of concrete helps me.
10 CPR helps me. You have construction
11 steward system. That is the
12 certificate I am talking about. I
13 guess we need that. Wood framing, a
14 knowledge of wood framing helps me.
15 BY MR. MACK:
16 Q At this job site you had nothing to do
17 with the hiring?
18 A The call to the District Council for
19 the shop steward, no.
20 Q Now I will show you again another
21 exhibit, this one is marked SGF 4. GF stands for
22 George Fitzgerald. That is the way I would keep
23 track so most of these exhibits were shown to
24 George during the course of his opportunity to be
25 here. I am interested in what you have to say
1 DeRoss 46
2 about it. I hand these over and give copies to my
3 colleagues here. Take your time. These are
4 carpenter records, not Sorbara records. You may
5 have nothing to do with any of these jobs, but I
6 want to make sure that I gain the benefit of any
7 knowledge you may have about this job site, which
8 as I can tell from the second page of SGF 4 is at
9 660 8th Avenue.
10 A I don't recognize the address. I don't
11 know what job it is.
12 Q So this is a job site you don't believe
13 you had anything to do with it, would that be fair?
14 A That would be fair unless I know a
15 cross street and --
16 Q Do you know a carpenter shop steward by
17 the name of Michael Guerrin?
18 A A carpenter shop steward Michael
19 Guerrin, no, I don't.
20 Q Let's say that is just an effort by me
21 to ensure that I didn't miss your presence. I
22 think it is fair to state from the document itself
23 it is November 22, 2000. The call came in with a
24 start date of November 24, 2000.
25 A This is the shop steward's name that
1 DeRoss 47
2 was on the job, I never had a shop steward by that
3 name, Michael Guerrin.
4 Q Now I will show you another one and I
5 will get my copies out here. This one is marked
6 SGF 5. Again if you would, take your time and just
7 go through it and take a look at it and again I say
8 these are carpenter records, these are not records
9 of either Sorbara and certainly not your records.
10 While I am thinking about it, let me ask you your
11 cell phone number?
12 A The top right hand corner of this page,
13 917-865-8052.
14 Q That is your cell phone number?
15 A That is one of them, yes.
16 Q Could you tell me any other cell phone
17 number that you have used let's say in the last
18 three years?
19 A I have a Nextel phone number.
20 Q Could you give give me that number?
21 A To be honest with you, I don't know it.
22 I know it is 516.
23 Q You are a Nextel subscriber?
24 A I don't have that with me.
25 MR. BATEMAN: I will see if I can
1 DeRoss 48
2 get you that number.
3 A 516-250. I don't know the rest.
4 Q It is a minor thing. Don't worry about
5 it. So in the last three years you had two cell
6 phones?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And these are the same cell phone
9 numbers that you had in the last three years?
10 A Yes.
11 Q One of them we said already so many
12 times, it is 917-865-8052, who is your provider for
13 that number?
14 A AT&T.
15 Q You have a Nextel phone, the first
16 digit of which is 516-250. Let's talk about this
17 job site which is 59th Street and Columbus Circle
18 AOL Time Warner, did you have responsibilities at
19 that job site?
20 A Yes, I did.
21 Q Would you indicate what they were and
22 when they began?
23 A They began the end of October 2001 --
24 beginning in November 2001 and George Fitzgerald
25 was the superintendent there. I was the
1 DeRoss 49
2 superintendent there. It was George's job. I was
3 more like an assistant superintendent than George.
4 We had two towers. I worked on one and George
5 worked on the other.
6 Q Which one was yours?
7 A The south tower.
8 Q Did you have a role in the assignment
9 of the carpenter shop steward to that project?
10 A No, I did not.
11 Q Did you ever make any communications to
12 the District Council of Carpenters in which you
13 described the skills appropriate for the carpenter
14 shop steward to be assigned?
15 A No.
16 Q Do you know who did, whose
17 responsibility it was for the assignment of the
18 shop steward to that project?
19 A Let me understand. Who would request a
20 steward for the job?
21 Q Yes, if you know. It wasn't you?
22 A I would be guessing. I would think
23 George would have to call the District Council for
24 the job. It is his job.
25 Q But you have no personal knowledge and
1 DeRoss 50
2 you know you had nothing to do with it?
3 A Exactly.
4 Q Did you ever have a discussion with
5 George that concerned what the skill should be for
6 the carpenter shop steward at the AOL site?
7 A No.
8 Q If you would take a look at the second
9 page of Exhibit SGF 5, you will see that there is a
10 list there of skills. I assume your answer would
11 be the same as you just gave to Mr. Rothman with
12 respect to the skills appropriate for a shop
13 steward at that site?
14 A Right.
15 Q So I will not ask you those again. Did
16 you yourself have any knowledge of how John
17 Corrigan came to be the shop steward at this site?
18 A No.
19 Q Did you yourself ever discuss with a
20 business representative of the District Council of
21 Carpenters as to how John Corrigan came to that
22 site as shop steward?
23 A No.
24 Q Do you have any idea of how your cell
25 phone number came to be written on the first page
1 DeRoss 51
2 of SGF 5?
3 A No, I don't. I would be guessing. I
4 do get calls on my cell phone looking for George.
5 It's a guess. I don't know.
6 Q I want to show you another exhibit and
7 leave that in front of you because you may want to
8 refer to it. It has been marked JC 2-3. Look
9 through each page of that exhibit, JC 2-3. Could
10 you focus your attention on the cover page. My
11 first question would be do you recognize the
12 handwriting on the cover page of JC 2-3?
13 A No, I do not.
14 Q Would it be fair to state you know that
15 is not your handwriting?
16 A No, it is not my handwriting.
17 Q Have you ever seen this document
18 before?
19 A Yes, I have.
20 Q That was very recently?
21 A Yes, it was.
22 Q When was that?
23 A Maybe the end of last week from Alex.
24 Q But it would be fair to state that
25 prior to your attorneys showing you this document,
1 DeRoss 52
2 you had never seen this document before?
3 A No, I haven't.
4 Q Do you have any information of any kind
5 as to how this document came to be created?
6 A No.
7 Q Does Sorbara Construction or did
8 Sorbara Construction Corporation maintain a
9 document file or collection of all communications
10 that originated or were received at this job site,
11 the AOL job site, if you know?
12 A Could you restate the question please.
13 Q Was there a file maintained at the AOL
14 job site on behalf of Sorbara Construction
15 Corporation containing communications either to or
16 from Sorbara at that job site?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Have you yourself gone through that
19 file?
20 A I kept a file on carpenter requests in
21 my desk. If that is what you are looking for, yes.
22 Q Has that file been shown to
23 Mr. Bateman?
24 A It comes out of my office. It's a copy
25 that our secretary wouldn't send to the District
1 DeRoss 53
2 Council and she would send me a copy, so he has it.
3 MR. MACK: I don't want to
4 presume, but basically this document,
5 the copy of this JC 2-3 was not found
6 in that file?
7 MR. BATEMAN: That's correct.
8 Q Did you have any discussion at any time
9 with John Corrigan concerning the skills
10 appropriate for a shop steward at the AOL site?
11 A No.
12 Q Can you give me any suggestion or even
13 idea as to where this first page of JC 2-3 came
14 from?
15 A No.
16 Q Have you discussed JC 2-3 cover page
17 with Mr. Fitzgerald?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Did you ask him about the document?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What did he say?
22 A He did not write this.
23 Q Did he have any idea as far as you know
24 where this document came from?
25 A He asked me. He said I know you didn't
1 DeRoss 54
2 write the document and he didn't write the document
3 and that was the end of the story.
4 Q Let me ask you about the availability
5 of Sorbara Construction Corporation letterhead or
6 blank pages. Were those available to anyone to get
7 a copy?
8 In other words, there is not much
9 question that this appears to be a Sorbara
10 document. Look at the top.
11 A It says Sorbara letterhead. It's a
12 copy though.
13 Q Is there anything about this document
14 based upon your experience and knowledge both at
15 the site and as a superintendent of Sorbara that
16 would help us determine where this document came
17 from or how it came to be created?
18 A It did not come from Sorbara's office.
19 I can probably tell you 100 percent. Sorbara does
20 not do things handwritten. Sorbara -- it is all
21 typed out and done professionally. They would not
22 do something like this. I have seen letters that
23 you have, requests. It is not done like this.
24 Q How would someone get ahold of
25 Sorbara's letterhead if you know, was it available
1 DeRoss 55
2 at the job site?
3 A No.
4 Q Can you give me any suggestion? We are
5 trying to find out obviously where this document
6 came from.
7 A Sorbara sends letters out to men on the
8 job about safety issues on their letterhead.
9 Somebody took the letterhead and whited it out. I
10 am guessing. You are not going to find the
11 original letterhead coming out of Sorbara's office
12 sent to the men. It looks like a copy.
13 Q Is there anything else about this and I
14 would appreciate your expertise and experience in
15 looking at this cover page and pointing out to me
16 if there is anything here that would help us find
17 out where this came from and how this came to be
18 created?
19 A No.
20 Q You don't recognize it?
21 A No, I don't recognize it at all.
22 Q I know it is difficult to read, but at
23 the very bottom of the right hand corner -- I will
24 withdraw that.
25 Is there anything about the dye or the
1 DeRoss 56
2 black smudge there that would be of value, was
3 there a fax machine at the job site?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Was that a material produced or faxed
6 from that machine, did it come out similarly or
7 frequently or occasionally with black sort of
8 disfigurement on one of the margins?
9 A No.
10 MR. MACK: Is there anything you
11 would like to ask about this?
12 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: Ask about the
13 phone call margin.
14 MR. ROTHMAN: Can you attach any
15 significance or meaning to the picture
16 of the building on the lower left hand
17 corner?
18 THE WITNESS: I have been asking
19 for years what building that is. I
20 don't know.
21 MR. ROTHMAN: In your experience
22 has Sorbara changed their stationery to
23 reflect any particular buildings that
24 you may be working on or that a letter
25 might concern?
1 DeRoss 57
2 THE WITNESS: Any letters that
3 were sent to me, it is the same logo
4 here.
5 BY MR. MACK:
6 Q I guess another way, is there anything
7 about the appearance of this top page here that
8 would help us put a location or a time, anything
9 that might be helpful to us, in trying to assess
10 where this document came from and how it came to
11 the carpenters?
12 A No.
13 Q If you would turn to the third page
14 again of this document, there is a note there.
15 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: Do you recall
16 on that telephone number 917-865-8052
17 receiving a message from the District
18 Council stating that they could not
19 fill this job at the AOL building, did
20 you receive any message?
21 THE WITNESS: No.
22 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: You received no
23 phone calls that you can recall on that
24 number 917-865-8052 for George or
25 concerning this job?
1 DeRoss 58
2 THE WITNESS: As I recall, no. I
3 had nothing to do with that job until
4 the job was on the 6th floor and
5 everything was flowing when I went to
6 that job.
7 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: So you came to
8 the job much later than 3-22-01?
9 THE WITNESS: Yes. It had to be
10 the end of October or November of that
11 year. The job was in full swing.
12 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: You mentioned a
13 little bit earlier that you do receive
14 messages or calls on the 917 number
15 looking for George?
16 THE WITNESS: Yes.
17 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: What are the
18 nature of those calls?
19 THE WITNESS: They would say
20 hello and I would give them George's
21 number. We have business cards,
22 myself, George and Thomas McGowan.
23 They are out there. The guy comes and
24 shapes the job and you give him the
25 business card or vice versa. They are
1 DeRoss 59
2 company phones. The office could have
3 given them my number by accident
4 looking for George.
5 MR. MACK: Anything else?
6 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: No.
7 MR. MACK: Mr. Scarvalone?
8 MR. SCARVALONE: Was it ever your
9 experience the company would give out
10 the wrong number for either you, George
11 or Tom McGowan?
12 THE WITNESS: As far as I know,
13 no.
14 MR. MACK: Mr. Rothman.
15 MR. ROTHMAN: Do you know what
16 George Fitzgerald's cell phone number
17 is?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 MR. ROTHMAN: What is that?
20 THE WITNESS: It is 917-929-2616.
21 MR. SCARVALONE: Walter asked you
22 some questions about conversations you
23 may have had with George Fitzgerald
24 about this handwritten note that we
25 were looking at a few minutes ago.
1 DeRoss 60
2 MR. MACK: JC 2-3.
3 MR. SCARVALONE: Did you have any
4 conversation with George about who did
5 write the note?
6 THE WITNESS: We asked each
7 other, did he write it, did I write it
8 and that was the end of the
9 conversation. No, we did not know who
10 wrote the letter. He knew I wasn't on
11 the job and that was the end of it.
12 MR. SCARVALONE: Did you have any
13 discussion about who may have written
14 the note?
15 THE WITNESS: No.
16 MR. MACK: Any other questions?
17 BY MR. MACK:
18 Q Let's go on to one more job and I will
19 get you out of here. I want to ask you about 22
20 River Terrace. When did you first become involved
21 with that job?
22 A Right from the beginning.
23 Q When would that have been
24 approximately, if you remember?
25 A 2000, the beginning of 2000, I believe.
1 DeRoss 61
2 I finished it in August or September of 2000.
3 Q Did you have any role at all in the
4 assignment of a shop steward to that job?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Tell me what you remember about that?
7 A I remember calling the District Council
8 of Carpenters. I don't remember who I spoke to,
9 requesting a steward for a start date and Michael
10 Lynch was my steward on that job.
11 Q Did you request any particular skills
12 that the shop steward have?
13 A No.
14 Q Was Mr. Lynch working at that job when
15 you put in your request, in other words, was
16 Michael Lynch already on the job when you made the
17 request for shop steward?
18 A No, the job wasn't started when I made
19 the request.
20 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: You refer to
21 calling the District Council, are you
22 saying that you actually called the
23 local that the job is at in order to
24 require the -- the question is you
25 referenced a call to the District
1 DeRoss 62
2 Council to request a shop steward, is
3 it better said that you actually called
4 the local whose jurisdiction the job is
5 in to request the steward?
6 THE WITNESS: Yes, that's
7 correct, the territory.
8 MR. MACK: And you would talk to
9 a business agent or representative of
10 that local in whose jurisdiction the
11 job was about your needs, is that
12 correct?
13 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
14 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: That was the
15 case with the 22 River Terrace job?
16 THE WITNESS: Yes.
17 BY MR. MACK:
18 Q Do you have a recollection of who you
19 talked to at the local with respect to the
20 assignment of the shop steward at 22 River Terrace?
21 A I don't know who I spoke to, but a
22 business agent came to the job with Michael Lynch
23 telling me this will be your steward.
24 Q Who was that?
25 A I believe it was Gerard Philbin.
1 DeRoss 63
2 Q What is your recollection of that
3 conversation with Mr. Philbin?
4 A He came to the job. We talked. The
5 job would be starting in two or three weeks. He
6 said there will be a shop steward here. I don't
7 know if he started that week. I don't remember
8 when he started, but I know we met on the job site
9 and he told me this will be your steward and called
10 me when the job is going to go and I am sending
11 Michael there.
12 Q Is there anything that happened at that
13 job site to your knowledge that was not appropriate
14 or was unprofessional from your point of view?
15 A No.
16 Q Let me show you what has been marked as
17 SGF 10 and again I say to you this is a carpenter
18 record. I will just ask you and change this
19 exhibit, I will only show you the second page of
20 SGF 10 and I did ask you simply to look at the
21 second page. I will make a copy.
22 There is no question in your mind that
23 Michael Lynch was brought to you by Mr. Philbin and
24 you were told that he would be the shop steward?
25 A This is the second page?
1 DeRoss 64
2 Q Yes. All I am asking is at least the
3 appearance of this second page, does that in any
4 way change your recollection that Michael Lynch was
5 brought to you by Mr. Philbin and that was the
6 first time you knew that he was going to be on the
7 job?
8 A He was brought to me by a business
9 agent. I am not 100 percent sure if it was Gerry
10 Philbin, but it was somebody from the local.
11 Q But when he was brought to you, Michael
12 Lynch was not on the job?
13 A No.
14 Q It hadn't started?
15 A No.
16 MR. MACK: I think we are done.
17 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: 22 River
18 Terrace, what did Sorbara do at that
19 job site?
20 THE WITNESS: We did I think a 30
21 story high rise.
22 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: So it was
23 foundation?
24 THE WITNESS: No, we didn't do
25 the foundation. We did from the slab
1 DeRoss 65
2 on grade and above, we did that
3 concrete structure. I think 30
4 stories, somewhere in that vicinity.
5 MR. MACK: Anything further?
6 MR. ROTHMAN: When did you say
7 you went to that job?
8 THE WITNESS: To my recollection
9 I believe somewhere in the area of
10 April. I think that is close to the
11 date the job started?
12 MR. MACK: Of 2000?
13 THE WITNESS: Yes.
14 MR. MACK: Anything else,
15 Mr. Rothman?
16 MR. ROTHMAN: No.
17 MR. MACK: Mr. Scarvalone.
18 MR. SCARVALONE: Just a couple of
19 things. You mentioned that on the
20 River Terrace job you phoned up the
21 local before the job was started?
22 MR. MACK: It was every job in
23 which you wanted a steward at a job
24 site that you were responsible for, you
25 didn't call the District Council's
1 DeRoss 66
2 Office, you called the local?
3 THE WITNESS: I retract that. I
4 called the local in the area the job
5 was in.
6 MR. MACK: It is all of the job?
7 MR. SCARVALONE: That was my
8 question, that was your practice when
9 you needed a shop steward on a job?
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 MR. SCARVALONE: Was that
12 Sorbara's practice to your knowledge?
13 THE WITNESS: Yes.
14 MR. SCARVALONE: That would have
15 been George Fitzgerald's practice as
16 well?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes, and Thomas
18 McGowan.
19 MR. SCARVALONE: Other than River
20 Terrace, were there other jobs where
21 the business agent came to the job site
22 with the person who was to be assigned
23 as shop steward for that job?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
25 MR. SCARVALONE: There were other
1 DeRoss 67
2 instances of that happening?
3 THE WITNESS: When I started
4 Brooklyn Law School where I am right
5 now, I called the local business
6 agent -- the business agent came to the
7 job and told me who my steward would
8 be.
9 MR. SCARVALONE: Which local was
10 that?
11 THE WITNESS: 926.
12 MR. SCARVALONE: Which business
13 agent of Local 926 told you who the
14 steward would be?
15 THE WITNESS: I have it in my
16 office.
17 MR. MACK: Ask Mr. Bateman if you
18 would?
19 MR. SCARVALONE: Other than River
20 Terrace and the Brooklyn Law School job
21 you are on now, were there other jobs
22 where a business agent would come over
23 to the job site with the shop steward
24 who was to be assigned the job?
25 THE WITNESS: I need a minute to
1 DeRoss 68
2 think about it. I don't recall that I
3 ever met with a business agent before.
4 I think the carpenter steward showed up
5 on the job saying he was the steward
6 with the papers.
7 MR. MACK: Who is the shop
8 steward at the Brooklyn Law School?
9 THE WITNESS: His name is Yosef
10 Ben Israel.
11 MR. MACK: Mr. Scarvalone.
12 MR. SCARVALONE: Just a couple of
13 more questions. Was it ever your
14 practice in communicating to the local
15 that you you needed a shop steward, did
16 you ever fax something into the local
17 or send something into the local like a
18 request form?
19 THE WITNESS: Not requesting a
20 steward. I would send in something
21 from Sorbara saying the job is going to
22 start at such and such a date and the
23 starting time would be 7:00 or 8:00,
24 not requesting a steward, no.
25 MR. SCARVALONE: Would those
1 DeRoss 69
2 requests be sent to the local or the
3 District Council?
4 THE WITNESS: I am guessing. I
5 don't know. Maybe the District
6 Council. I am not sure.
7 MR. SCARVALONE: Would you
8 personally take care of submitting
9 those requests or someone in the
10 office?
11 THE WITNESS: Someone in the
12 office.
13 MR. SCARVALONE: Mr. Mack asked
14 you some questions about John Corrigan.
15 Was Mr. Corrigan in the class you took
16 at the District Council to become a
17 certified shop steward?
18 THE WITNESS: I don't think he
19 was.
20 MR. SCARVALONE: Walter asked you
21 questions about Mr. Corrigan's
22 professionalism. Did you ever hear any
23 reports or rumors that called
24 Mr. Corrigan's professional into
25 question?
1 DeRoss 70
2 THE WITNESS: No.
3 MR. SCARVALONE: Did you ever
4 hear reports or rumors that he was
5 drinking on the job?
6 THE WITNESS: No.
7 MR. SCARVALONE: Did you ever
8 hear reports or rumors that
9 Mr. Corrigan showed the effects of
10 having been drinking on the job?
11 THE WITNESS: No.
12 MR. SCARVALONE: I have nothing
13 further.
14 MR. MACK: Anything you would
15 like to bring out, Mr. Bateman?
16 MR. BATEMAN: I have a question
17 with respect to SGF 10. I noted that
18 in this exhibit there is no what is
19 called a manning request form that was
20 with the other exhibits. I take it one
21 has not be been provided?
22 MR. MACK: Not as yet.
23 MR. BATEMAN: I have no
24 questions.
25 MR. MACK: Mr. DeRoss, I want to
1 DeRoss 71
2 say a couple of things, one to thank
3 you for what I am sure has not been the
4 thing you would have picked to do
5 today, but it is important for me to do
6 my job with the judge and I want to
7 thank you for taking the time and being
8 as direct and clear and helpful in
9 resolving the things that I have.
10 If you should find a record or
11 you should have a recollection in your
12 mind about a topic that we have
13 discussed today and this happens
14 frequently, there is nothing wrong
15 about it, and you feel there is
16 something that was left out or needs to
17 be changed here because I will rely
18 upon what Ken will provide me in
19 several weeks when I am preparing my
20 report for the court, so it is
21 extremely important that if you
22 remember something beyond or what is
23 different than what you have told me
24 today or have a record which will
25 assist me on the topics we have
1 DeRoss 72
2 discussed today, that you contact
3 Mr. Bateman so that he can furnish that
4 information to me and I can do what is
5 known in our trade as to supplement the
6 record to add material, so that it is
7 complete and that my efforts to find
8 what the truth is, is clear, that is an
9 obligation of yours to do that.
10 I say this again to every
11 witness, if you should remember
12 something that would complete, alter,
13 modify, subtract from what you have
14 said today, you need to take the
15 initiative and contact Mr. Bateman and
16 Mr. Bateman can contact me directly so
17 I can assure that I have the benefit of
18 that addition or deletion.
19 Do you have any questions or
20 anything you would like to say before
21 we conclude?
22 THE WITNESS: No, I don't.
23 MR. MACK: I appreciate your help
24 and I am sorry we diverted your
25 outstanding competence away from the
1 DeRoss 73
2 job site. If it wasn't important, I
3 wouldn't have asked. Let's close the
4 record.
5 THE WITNESS: Thank you very
6 much.
7 (Time Noted: 12:00 noon)
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13 Sworn to before me this
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3 STATE OF NEW YORK )
ss:
4 COUNTY OF NEW YORK )
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6 I, KEN SOFRONSKI, a Notary Public of the
7 State of New York, do hereby certify:
8 THAT, ALBERT DeROSS, the witness whose
9 deposition is hereinbefore set forth, was duly
10 sworn by me and that such deposition is a true
11 record of the testimony given by such witness.
12 I further certify that I am not related
13 to any of the parties to this action by blood
14 or marriage, and that I am in no way
15 interested in the outcome of this matter.
16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set
17 my hand this 30th day of December, 2003.
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KEN SOFRONSKI
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