UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                      SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK  
                      -------------------------------------------x 
                      UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
                      
                                          Plaintiff,                
                                                           90 CIV 5722 
                                -against-                     (CSH) 
                                                                
                      DISTRICT COUNCIL OF NEW YORK CITY 
                      AND VICINITY OF THE UNITED
                      BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND
                      JOINERS OF AMERICA, et. al.,
                      
                                          Defendants.
                      -------------------------------------------x 
                      Independent Investigator Deposition 
                                            
                                            February 25, 2005 
                                            10:00 o'clock a.m. 
                       
                               DEPOSITION of PETER OKEEFE, taken by the 
                      Independent Investigator, Walter Mack, Esq., at 
                      the offices of Doar, Rieck & Mack, Esqs., 217 
                      Broadway, 7th floor, New York, New York 
                      10007-2911, before Stewart Nissenbaum, a Shorthand 
                      Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New 
                      York.
                      
                      
                      
                      
                              TANKOOS REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
                      305 Madison Avenue            142 Willis Avenue 
                      Suite 449                     P.O. BOX 347 
                      New York, N.Y. 10165          Mineola, N.Y.  11501 
                         (212)349-9692               (516)741-5235 
                      









            1                                                       2
                      A P P E A R A N C E S : 
            2         
                                                                
            3         
                      DOAR RIECK & MACK, ESQS.
            4               217 Broadway, 7th Floor
                            New York, New York 10007-2911                         
            5          
                      BY:   WALTER MACK, ESQ.  
            6               Independent Investigator 
                       
            7          
                      
            8         
                      
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           10                             
                                           * * *
           11          
                       
           12          
           13          
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            1                                                       3
            2                      MR. MACK:  Let's go on the 
            3               record, please.  
            4                      I want to go over, Mr. Okeefe, 
            5               with you, what I just said in summary 
            6               fashion; because as I've told you, I 
            7               work for Federal Judge Haight, and I 
            8               have been appointed by Court Order as 
            9               Independent Investigator, with certain 
           10               responsibilities which include gathering 
           11               facts and writing reports.  I have no 
           12               disciplinary authority of my own.  My 
           13               job is basically as an investigator to 
           14               gather facts and to write reports, and 
           15               ask others to act on those.
           16                      Basically, I have to tell you, 
           17               that I have been interested in several 
           18               aspects of some Complete Construction 
           19               jobs that have come to my attention, but 
           20               in reviewing what I have been furnished 
           21               by the District Council, it is clear to 
           22               me that there are other topics I'm 
           23               interested in talking to you about.  You 
           24               have been requested to be here today 
           25               pursuant to my authority as Independent 


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            1                                                       4
            2               Investigator to require any carpenter to 
            3               appear on notice.  And I also have the 
            4               authority to require noncarpenters to 
            5               appear, with the judge's permission.  
            6                      You, as any carpenter who sits 
            7               where you sit, and many have sat there 
            8               in the last two years, have certain 
            9               rights.  And I want to make sure that 
           10               you have the benefit of those.  
           11                      First of all, if you wish, you 
           12               have a right to an attorney, to have an 
           13               attorney present to assist you at any 
           14               time, and to provide legal advice.  It 
           15               makes no difference to me whether you 
           16               have one or not.
           17                      MR. OKEEFE:  I spoke to my 
           18               next-door neighbor, a friend, an 
           19               attorney.  He just said come down and be 
           20               honest with you.
           21                      MR. MACK:  If at any time today 
           22               you wish to change your mind, all you 
           23               have to do is tell me, and you'll be 
           24               given the opportunity to find counsel; I 
           25               won't give you a lot of time, and I want 


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            1                                                       5
            2               to proceed.  
            3                      The District Council, although my 
            4               appointment has been about two years, 
            5               they are asking to terminate me and 
            6               prevent me from continuing; and that is 
            7               an issue before the District Court right 
            8               now.  So, the point I'm making here is, 
            9               that the judge would require of me that 
           10               I be absolutely fair and open, and the 
           11               judge or his clerk will be reading this 
           12               transcript, and would want to ensure 
           13               that I gave you all your rights and 
           14               explained them.  
           15                      Another right you have is, if you 
           16               wish, you could have the District 
           17               Council and the Government present at 
           18               this interview, and it is my 
           19               understanding, we discussed that about a 
           20               week ago, and you are willing to 
           21               participate without their presence; is 
           22               that correct?
           23                      MR. OKEEFE:  Very much correct 
           24               that I don't want the District Council 
           25               to even know I was here.


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            1                                                       6
            2                      MR. MACK:  Eventually, at some 
            3               time, if you act upon some of the 
            4               matters you described, they are likely 
            5               to get a copy of this transcript, 
            6               eventually, unless there's something 
            7               that comes up that you feel I should ask 
            8               the Court to seal.
            9                      MR. OKEEFE:  My basic fear, that 
           10               I'm going through disability pension, 
           11               right now.  They speak subtly when they 
           12               want to send a message.  I told you I 
           13               was a little surprised I got a phone 
           14               call, now my pension is in question for 
           15               several years.  I supplied records for 
           16               those years; now they are going at a 
           17               different set of years.
           18                      MR. MACK:  If at any time, today 
           19               or in the future, anyone seeks to 
           20               influence your obligation, which is to 
           21               tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
           22               nothing but the truth, either by 
           23               discouraging you or in some way trying 
           24               to prevent you from telling me what the 
           25               facts and the truth are, you should let 


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            1                                                       7
            2               me know.  That's a federal offense.  
            3                      MR. OKEEFE:  Mr. Russo, I was 
            4               explaining about the District Council; 
            5               they asked me to give a statement, and 
            6               then they were requesting that I add 
            7               things to that statement at the end.  
            8               Did he say this, well, that's the truth; 
            9               well, if he said that, then you should 
           10               put that down.  They try to give you a 
           11               push in a certain direction.
           12                      MR. MACK:  Who is the "they"?
           13                      MR. OKEEFE:  Scott Danielson. 
           14                      MR. MACK:  The most important 
           15               thing I or any attorney would say to you 
           16               is, that certainly you'll be placed 
           17               under oath.  Really, the only way that 
           18               you and I can have a problem is if you 
           19               lie to me, don't tell me the truth.  As 
           20               I say to everybody who appears before 
           21               me, that if they lie, you can be certain 
           22               I will recommend that you be prosecuted  
           23               for perjury or obstruction of justice.  
           24               I don't do the prosecution; I'm not a 
           25               prosecutor.  I have been a prosecutor, 


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            1                                                       8
            2               but I recommend to the Court, and I know 
            3               the judge feels the same way as I do, 
            4               the purpose of these interviews is to 
            5               gather the truth.
            6                      MR. OKEEFE:  Tommy Zugibe is my 
            7               next-door neighbor.  He is a judge and 
            8               attorney and a great friend.  He must 
            9               have said that to me three times last 
           10               night.
           11                      MR. MACK:  I just want to make 
           12               certain I said, whether you have an 
           13               attorney or not, that you have to honor 
           14               your oath.  So I would encourage you to 
           15               be as precise as you can be, and 
           16               accurate.  Should you lie to me, you not 
           17               only can be charged with perjury or 
           18               lying under oath, but because I'm a 
           19               Court Officer seeking facts, if you try 
           20               to deceive me by withholding information 
           21               or giving me false information, that 
           22               also could be an obstruction of justice; 
           23               and both of those are federal crimes and 
           24               carry with them possible sentences or 
           25               fines and imprisonment.  I'm not 


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            1                                                       9
            2               singling you out.  It is a warning I 
            3               give every witness who comes here.
            4                      Another right that you have is 
            5               your Fifth Amendment right.  And that 
            6               is, if I should ask you a question which 
            7               would tend to incriminate you 
            8               personally, because this is a proceeding 
            9               of the District Court, you have the 
           10               right to refuse to answer that question, 
           11               based on the ground it might tend to 
           12               incriminate you.  
           13                      What I would suggest to you under 
           14               those circumstances is, that if you are 
           15               asked a question, which I don't 
           16               anticipate asking, it is not what I 
           17               anticipate, it is what goes on in your 
           18               mind, I would recommend under those 
           19               circumstances that you do consult with 
           20               counsel before you do so.  But although 
           21               I'm not a criminal prosecutor, it is my 
           22               habit for any individual who does assert 
           23               the Fifth Amendment, to refer that 
           24               assertion to a criminal prosecutor.
           25                      MR. OKEEFE:  Someone stops you to 


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            1                                                      10
            2               take a drug test, you say no; first 
            3               thing, you're drunk.
            4                      MR. MACK:  It doesn't mean that.  
            5               But at the same time, I can refer it to 
            6               a prosecutor to assess.  I would tell 
            7               you this:  If you do take the Fifth 
            8               Amendment, when I gave you an 
            9               opportunity to tell me your side, you 
           10               assert the privilege, I can choose 
           11               whether to accept another person's 
           12               story.  I want to say this on the record 
           13               again, I want to hear your side of 
           14               things.  I want to clearly get your 
           15               view.  
           16                      I have requested from the 
           17               District Council, a variety of records 
           18               concerning you; but I have learned from 
           19               long experience, records only tell some 
           20               things, and I need to hear from you on a 
           21               number of topics.  
           22                      Another factor today is that you 
           23               brought your daughter with you today, 
           24               and you've told me that you can only 
           25               give me until noon, which is about an 


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            1                                                      11
            2               hour and fifteen minutes away.  I will 
            3               honor that, but I want you to understand 
            4               that basically in the future, I will 
            5               need you to come back so we can complete 
            6               this.
            7                      MR. OKEEFE:  I'll be here as long 
            8               as we need to do it,
            9                      MR. MACK:  Having said that, is 
           10               there anything on your mind, or that you 
           11               would like to ask me before we begin?
           12                       MR. OKEEFE:  Only pertaining to 
           13               records you might want to try to ask the 
           14               District Council for.
           15                      MR. MACK:  Tell me what I should 
           16               ask for.
           17                      MR. OKEEFE:  The two petitions 
           18               concerning my first trial I had with the 
           19               council.
           20                      MR. MACK:  We have to talk one at 
           21               a time, so that Mr. Nissenbaum, who has 
           22               had the misfortune of working with me 
           23               for decades, can make an accurate 
           24               record, which is important to us and the 
           25               judge.  


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            1                                                      12
            2                      Tell me, and I'll listen.  What 
            3               should I be requesting, what documents?
            4                      MR. OKEEFE:  Two petitions I gave 
            5               to Mr. Scott Danielson. 
            6                      MR. MACK:  Describe the petitions 
            7               for me.
            8                      MR. OKEEFE:  Stating that Peter 
            9               Okeefe has not engaged in any nonunion 
           10               activities, and has tried his very best 
           11               to get help from the business agent, Joe   
           12               Firth.
           13                      MR. MACK:  Who signed these 
           14               petitions?
           15                      MR. OKEEFE:  That's something I'm 
           16               going to have to give you to do.  It's 
           17               shop stewards from the job and a 
           18               foreman.  
           19                      MR. MACK:  I assume that you will 
           20               be telling me how these petitions, why 
           21               they are created, as you take me through 
           22               the particular issue.
           23                      MR. OKEEFE:  Exactly.  When I 
           24               learned of the charges against me, I 
           25               knew at that time; I said, it is not 


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            1                                                      13
            2               true.  And I went down, spoke to the 
            3               guys on the job, who said, we're willing 
            4               to sign petitions, because we are here 
            5               on the job; we see what's going on.  We 
            6               know the truth.
            7                      MR. MACK:  We are getting to that 
            8               one other thing the judge would ask me 
            9               to do.  I know you have, I'm not asking 
           10               you to describe it in any detail, some 
           11               medical conditions that may affect your 
           12               ability to function up to full strength.  
           13               If at any time today, you feel the need 
           14               to take a break, or something of that 
           15               nature, you ought to tell me, and we'll 
           16               take a break.  
           17                      Second of all, if you don't 
           18               understand any of my questions, you can 
           19               ask me, I'll try to clarify them.  
           20                      Third of all, we have to make 
           21               sure, so that the record is clear, let 
           22               me finish my question before you start 
           23               answering, because otherwise the record 
           24               will not be clear.  As I've told you, I 
           25               need the record so I can be certain I 


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            1                                                      14
            2               know what you said.  This is not like an 
            3               interview process, it is like a process 
            4               in which I want to ask a question and 
            5               have your answer, and have 
            6               Mr. Nissenbaum record it in his 
            7               stenotype machine, so that when I read 
            8               it or the judge reads it in the future, 
            9               we know what you said, so there's not a 
           10               question of guessing.  In other words, 
           11               to do that, you need to let me finish my 
           12               question, and then you answer.  Fair 
           13               enough?
           14                      MR. OKEEFE:  Yes.
           15                      MR. MACK:  Any questions at all 
           16               you would like to ask me before we 
           17               start?
           18                      MR. OKEEFE:  Nothing about what 
           19               we discussed.  The only other papers you 
           20               might want to ask for, were the persons 
           21               present at that meeting, three or four 
           22               weeks ago, Mr. Russo was there, the 
           23               copies of the shop steward reports 
           24               concerning Mr. Gotti.  
           25                      MR. MACK:  Let me say, I 


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            1                                                      15
            2               mentioned, Mr. Russo works for me, as an 
            3               investigator assigned to my staff.  And 
            4               he is assigned -- basically, I have 
            5               known him, as I say, for decades, he is 
            6               a former FBI agent and someone who I 
            7               have absolute trust and confidence in.  
            8                      Do you have possession of these 
            9               records?  
           10                      MR. OKEEFE:  No.  But he had 
           11               looked at the person next to him, and he 
           12               held it up and said, this is Mr. Gotti's 
           13               writing here and his Social Security 
           14               number.  My briefcase was forced open, 
           15               and they were taken.  I hope the 
           16               originals are intact.  
           17                      MR. MACK:  What you're telling me 
           18               is, when you were interviewed recently 
           19               at the District Council, those 
           20               documents, those shop steward reports, 
           21               were present at the interview room?
           22                      MR. OKEEFE:  Yes. 
           23                      MR. MACK:  Anything else you 
           24               would like to ask me before we start?
           25                      MR. OKEEFE:  No.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                16
            2                      MR. MACK:  Let me ask that the 
            3               witness be sworn, please.   
            4          P E T E R   O K E E F E ,  the witness 
            5          herein, being first duly sworn by Stewart 
            6          Nissenbaum, a Notary Public of the State of 
            7          New York, was examined and testified as 
            8          follows:  
            9          EXAMINATION BY 
           10          MR. MACK:
           11               Q      Now, you have said and spelled 
           12          for the record, your name; if not, let's make 
           13          sure we have it on the record.  What is your 
           14          name?
           15               A      Peter Okeefe.
           16               Q      Spell your last name.
           17               A      O-k-e-e-f-e.
           18               Q      How long, Mr. Okeefe, have you 
           19          been a carpenter?
           20               A      Since 1972.
           21               Q      And I know you are on disability 
           22          now?
           23               A      I applied for pension disability 
           24          and Social Security disability, due to a type 
           25          of liver cancer I have.  So far, so good.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                17
            2               Q      I'm sorry to hear that.  We hope 
            3          for the best health outcome that can happen.  
            4                      You are here today because of 
            5          questions that have arisen concerning a 
            6          number of topics that I will cover.  As I've 
            7          said to you already, our time is limited 
            8          today, so I would like you to select for me, 
            9          in your mind, the most important issue in 
           10          which you think that either you have been 
           11          treated unfairly, or you feel should come to 
           12          the Court's attention.  I'm an agent of the 
           13          Court.  What would that topic be? 
           14               A      I would like to go sequentially 
           15          from the beginning, '99 and on.
           16               Q      So in 1999, what was your 
           17          situation at the District Council or in the 
           18          union?  Were you qualified as a shop steward?
           19               A      I was qualified as a shop 
           20          steward, yes.  I had not found out about my 
           21          liver disease at that point.  The first job I 
           22          worked on for Silo was at 92nd Street and 
           23          Second Avenue.
           24               Q      Could you tell me, first of all, 
           25          and again, we have to be careful here, so 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                18
            2          that we don't -- you and I don't overlap our 
            3          answers, tell me a little bit about Silo, 
            4          when you first went to work for Silo.
            5               A      That's the very first job that I 
            6          had for Silo.
            7               Q      That was what year?
            8               A      1999.
            9               Q      Before I get started, what is 
           10          Silo?  Give me some idea, at least at that 
           11          time.
           12               A      Silo Construction; I can't think 
           13          of the gentleman's name who owns it.
           14               Q      Is Silo Construction still in 
           15          business today?
           16               A      They are in business, but they 
           17          are on Long Island.  And I don't believe they 
           18          are involved with the union anymore. 
           19               Q      All right.  You're going to come 
           20          back --
           21               A      I'm going to write a lot of this 
           22          down.
           23               Q      Silo Construction, what, how did 
           24          you come to work for Silo Construction?
           25               A      I was appointed as shop steward 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                19
            2          from the union. 
            3               Q      And that job was where?
            4               A      92nd Street and Second Avenue, 
            5          and that would be in the jurisdiction of 
            6          Local 157.
            7               Q      Your local is what?
            8               A      157.
            9               Q      So you take me through.  What 
           10          happened there?
           11               A      I was there for about a year on 
           12          that job.  Gentleman named Perry Mastrangelo 
           13          was the foreman there.  Perry and I became 
           14          very friendly, a nice guys, a good 
           15          journeyman.  He didn't ask for anything, the 
           16          men to work on weekend; everything was kept 
           17          on the up-and-up.
           18               Q      Were you doing shop steward 
           19          reports at the time?
           20               A      Yes.
           21               Q      Were your shop steward reports 
           22          accurate in every respect?
           23               A      Yes. 
           24               Q      Was there cash on that job during 
           25          the early time period, that you knew about?


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                20
            2               A      No, not that I know of.  I'm just 
            3          guessing.  I shouldn't guess.  Some work that 
            4          was done on the weekends, I didn't get 
            5          records from, I didn't get reports from.  But 
            6          I know some work was done on the weekends; 
            7          that's minimal. 
            8               Q      On the work that was done on the 
            9          weekends, did you talk to Mr. Mastrangelo 
           10          about how that work got done, and why you 
           11          weren't informed of it?
           12               A      He said they worked a little one 
           13          day, and got it done. 
           14               Q      You should have been informed of 
           15          that, to record those hours; correct?
           16               A      Yes. 
           17               Q      Was that ever a subject of 
           18          discussion between you and Mr. Mastrangelo?
           19               A      Nothing that I pushed; nothing 
           20          that I would really push to the floor.  It 
           21          was minimal; at most, two or three weekends.
           22               Q      Tell me what I should hear about 
           23          that.
           24               A      That job, I would have to say 
           25          when I first went to work for Silo, we didn't 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                21
            2          have any problems at all.  It was in the 157 
            3          district.  Fred Kennedy being the business 
            4          agent, it was always right on the button if I 
            5          called him to come down for help.  We had a 
            6          little problem with some of the cement 
            7          workers out front; I wanted to make sure the 
            8          cement workers were carpenters.  There's a 
            9          cement block this high, cement workers are 
           10          supposed to be -- it was a question of which 
           11          cement work was in whose jurisdiction, 
           12          carpenter or cement worker.  That was 
           13          straightened out.  Not many problems on that 
           14          job at all.
           15               Q      When you say "that job," we are 
           16          talking about 92md and Second Avenue?
           17               A      Right.  That was the first one I 
           18          did for Silo. 
           19               Q      Take me right through the 
           20          narrative.
           21               A      Now, within a year, the job I 
           22          left, I was out of work for two or three 
           23          weeks; I was assigned to another Silo job.
           24               Q      How did that come to pass; how 
           25          did you get to another Silo job?


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                22
            2               A      That's a good question.  I didn't 
            3          request to go to another Silo job; I didn't 
            4          ask.  I was on the waiting list for the 
            5          Bronx, Uptown area, which is where the job 
            6          was.  I know Perry said they had fired three 
            7          shop stewards, one came in, went out; came 
            8          in, went out.
            9               Q      Bear with me for a moment, I have 
           10          your -- I want to give you some documents 
           11          today.  They may be of use to you; but this 
           12          may be too early.
           13                      On this job at 92nd and Second, 
           14          when are we talking about?  Are we talking 
           15          about '99 or 2000?
           16               A      We are into 2000. 
           17               Q      Let me give you a copy of your 
           18          work referral history.
           19               A      It is 112th Street and Martin 
           20          Luther King Boulevard.
           21               Q      Let me gather the documents 
           22          first.  I've given you POK, which stands for 
           23          Peter Okeefe, number 3.   Take that and look 
           24          at that for yourself.  
           25                      I'm also going to give you POK-4, 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                23
            2          which is a record of your dispatches from the 
            3          District Council.  
            4                      And I'm going to give you, which 
            5          is often important to me when trying to 
            6          decide whether people are riding the 
            7          out-of-work list, your benefit history, 
            8          POK-2.
            9               A      Great. 
           10               Q      Those are yours to keep.
           11               A      Thank you.  
           12                      (Benefit history marked Exhibit 
           13               PKO-2.)
           14                      (Job referral history marked 
           15               Exhibit PKO-3.)
           16                      (Dispatches marked Exhibit 
           17               PKO-4.)
           18               Q      What I would like you to do for 
           19          me, maybe we can do this, because I'm a 
           20          detail person and document person, I want to 
           21          find your dispatch to the Silo job, so I'm 
           22          going to pull out these documents.  If you 
           23          could give me an approximate date that I 
           24          should look for, I will try to find it.
           25               A      I see a lot of adding to the work 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                24
            2          list, but I didn't see the dispatches for the 
            3          actual -- that would be in this one.
            4               Q      Pick out POK-4.  The first job I 
            5          see you here, and recognize, is February 23, 
            6          2000, sending you to 95th Street and Second 
            7          Avenue.  Look for February 23, 2000. 
            8               A      Yes, that's that job.
            9               Q      Let's just -- I want to be as 
           10          precise as I can be for the benefit of the 
           11          District Council records. 
           12               A      I have to tell you, dates; I'm 
           13          just terrible with dates.
           14               Q      That's why we have the documents.  
           15          So the document that we found here reflects 
           16          your being dispatched on February 23, 2000 to 
           17          a Silo Construction job at 95th and Second 
           18          Avenue.  Is that your first Silo job?
           19               A      Yes. 
           20               Q      Let's correct the situation, so 
           21          the record is accurate, that it is 95th and 
           22          Second Avenue, rather than 92nd; is that 
           23          right?
           24               A      Yes.
           25               Q      And it is in early 2000, rather 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                25
            2          than '99?
            3               A      Correct. 
            4               Q      So, new I'm going to keep looking 
            5          through your dispatches.  
            6                      The next time I find a dispatch 
            7          to a Silo job for you is on December 1st, 
            8          2000.  You have everything I have.  It is to 
            9          the Silo job at 112th Street and Frederick 
           10          Douglas Boulevard?
           11               A      That's it.  Did you say 
           12          September?
           13               Q      Excuse me.  December 1st, 2000, 
           14          in the exhibit which you are looking at, 
           15          which is POK-4.
           16               A      Got it.
           17               Q      Is this your second Silo job?
           18               A      Yes, it is.
           19               Q      Tell me about this job.
           20               A      This job, originally I started 
           21          there from the very beginning of the job.  
           22          There were only three carpenters there for a 
           23          long time, for two or three months.
           24               Q      You were the shop steward?
           25               A      Yes.  There was a foreman who did 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                26
            2          not have a union book at first.
            3               Q      Who was that?
            4               A      Peter.
            5               Q      Is that a book that I should 
            6          copy?
            7               A      I don't know.  It is January 7th, 
            8          you see a lot of names that I have in here 
            9          from --
           10               Q      My suggestion is, let me copy it.
           11               A      Sure.  Let me see if I have 
           12          Peter's last name in here.
           13               Q      Okay.
           14                      (Pause.)
           15               A      I went over this last night.  I 
           16          should have wrote it down.
           17               Q      You'll know when you come back, 
           18          how compulsive I am on detail.  
           19                      I want to hear about this job 
           20          here on Douglas Boulevard.
           21               A      That's where I first met Mr. 
           22          Gotti.
           23               Q      First of all, the foreman, Peter, 
           24          last name unknown, which we'll try to figure 
           25          out, was not a union member; is that correct?


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                27
            2               A      No.  When I first went there, he 
            3          is the foreman, I found out he is not a union 
            4          member.  Within a week or two, I got him into 
            5          the union.
            6               Q      You got him in?
            7               A      He got himself in.  I helped, 
            8          went to the hall with him, paid past fines; 
            9          and his book was reinstated.
           10               Q      Why did you do this for him?
           11               A      Number one, he was a foreman, if 
           12          he goes to work on the job, he is required to 
           13          have a union card. 
           14               Q      No question about that. 
           15               A      I'm trying the keep things 
           16          straight.  For the first few months of the 
           17          job, there were only two or three people 
           18          there, a couple of regular guys, there really 
           19          wasn't too much of a problem.
           20               Q      Were you keeping shop steward 
           21          reports?
           22               A      Yes. 
           23               Q      Were your shop stewards reports 
           24          accurate?
           25               A      Yes. 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                28
            2               Q      True hours, no overtime, no cash; 
            3          is that correct?
            4               A      The overtime, I'm not sure if 
            5          some days we didn't put a couple of hours in.  
            6          There was nothing unrecorded.  The shop 
            7          steward reports at this point were straight 
            8          up, as straight up as I could keep them.  The 
            9          job was shut down three times during the 
           10          history of the job, three times it was 
           11          stopped and then started again.  It would be 
           12          stopped for three or four days at a time.
           13               Q      Who was stopping it?
           14               A      The first issue that it was 
           15          stopped, was OSHA. 
           16               Q      What was the OSHA problem?
           17               A      The collapse of one of the floors 
           18          upstairs.  Again with the time frame, there 
           19          was the elevator issue, the elevator kept 
           20          breaking down and would not operate.  Whether 
           21          that was before the collapse of the ceiling 
           22          or directly after it, I'm not sure.  
           23                      There was also the issue of the 
           24          safety railing, that I called in to OSHA and 
           25          tried to get a report, I did get a report for 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                29
            2          that.  I was issued the number and such, and 
            3          the little car they have, they sent a car out 
            4          with men in it.
            5               Q      OSHA?
            6               A      Yes.  It has a specific name.  
            7          They did come and investigate that.  
            8                      So the job was stopped and 
            9          started three times within a six-month 
           10          period.  Each time it was started again.  The 
           11          only way I found out was by some of the guys 
           12          on the job, friends of mine, calling me.  I 
           13          was never called by Peter or Silo, saying the 
           14          job has been restarted up again, come on 
           15          down. 
           16               Q      Was there a business agent 
           17          assigned to this job?
           18               A      Well, I should step back a little 
           19          bit.  A month into the job, Joe Firth was 
           20          appointed the business agent on this job.
           21               Q      How do you know that?  How did it 
           22          come to your attention?
           23               A      He was the person I was 
           24          reporting -- giving my paperwork to each 
           25          week.  Within a month, I had asked Joe to 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                30
            2          come by, stop by, see the guys, see the job, 
            3          we are having problems with some safety 
            4          issues.  Never came.  
            5                      Another month goes by, I'm trying 
            6          to think of a specific issue I called for, 
            7          that was a specific safety issue where each 
            8          trade had their business agent come down, 
            9          labor agent came down, an electrician agent 
           10          came down.  A large crowd at the front of the 
           11          building; still no Joe Firth.
           12                      The day after that happened, I 
           13          met Mr. Gotti for the first time. 
           14               Q      When you say Mr. Gotti, who are 
           15          we talking about?
           16               A      Richard Gotti.
           17               Q      How did you come to meet Richard 
           18          Gotti?
           19               A      He was speaking with some of the 
           20          men on the floor. 
           21               Q      In what capacity was Mr. Gotti 
           22          there?
           23               A      Supervisory capacity, as like -- 
           24          at that point, he was supposed to be one of 
           25          the supers from the company, Silo.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                31
            2               Q      Was he a union member?
            3               A      Yes, he was a union member; but I 
            4          wasn't asked to put him on the books yet.
            5               Q      Just take me through your first 
            6          meeting.  Was he introduced to you?
            7               A      Yes. 
            8               Q      By whom?
            9               A      By Roger.
           10               Q      Who Roger?
           11               A      Again, Roger -- I should make 
           12          some notes.
           13               Q      Here, I'll give you a pad.  You 
           14          can make notes as you wish. 
           15               A      Roger was a gentleman who was the 
           16          supervisor, strictly a supervisor for Silo.
           17               Q      He worked for Silo?
           18               A      Yes.  No union card, because he 
           19          never picked up tools or anything like that.  
           20          But he was the super on the job, over Pete.  
           21          Pete was a union carpenter, he works with his 
           22          tools, did most of the layout.  Roger was the 
           23          supervisor.  Roger introduced me to him, 
           24          and --
           25               Q      Just take me through it.  I'm a 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                32
            2          detail guy.  He said, hey, Peter, this is 
            3          Richard?
            4               A      Pretty much.  They were in the 
            5          paper at that time, Mr. Gotti's brother 
            6          passed away, very well-known.  A lot of guys 
            7          working in the hallway making a big deal, it 
            8          was a celebrity coming to visit.  
            9                      At that point, Mr. Gotti said, I 
           10          would like to speak to you.  We went down the 
           11          hall, a couple of halls away, into a private 
           12          area.
           13               Q      He is speaking to you?
           14               A      Yes.
           15               Q      This is what he said, this is 
           16          what I said. 
           17               A      He told me at that point that if 
           18          they had any problems on the job, any 
           19          problems concerning safety or anything, that 
           20          we shouldn't be bothering Joe Firth with it; 
           21          we shouldn't be bothering the union with it.
           22               Q      What was his point there?
           23               A      Only my impression:  I got the 
           24          impression that, I had been calling Joe Firth 
           25          over and over to please come to the job.  


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                33
            2          Instead of Joe Firth, I got this gentleman. 
            3               Q      That was your impression?
            4               A      That was my impression. 
            5               Q      Let me go back a little bit.  
            6          When Roger introduced Richard to you, what 
            7          did he say who this guy is, what's he doing 
            8          here?
            9               A      Just this is Richie, you knew who 
           10          he was. 
           11               Q      Don't make -- in my business, we 
           12          never assume anything. 
           13               A      Okay. 
           14               Q      Did you know who he was?
           15               A      Sure.  I had heard stories about 
           16          who the owner of Silo was.
           17               Q      You tell me; did someone tell you 
           18          that Richard was an owner of Silo?
           19               A      Yeah.
           20               Q      Do you remember who told you 
           21          that?
           22               A      A gentleman who had worked for 
           23          the company for a long time; Perry, for one.  
           24               Q      Perry Mastrangelo?
           25               A      Yes. 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                34
            2               Q      Who else?
            3               A      Errol Cummings, E-r-r-o-l 
            4          Cummings.
            5               Q      Who is Errol Cummings?
            6               A      Errol and I turned out to be 
            7          pretty good friends.  Errol left them a 
            8          couple of years ago, he is working in 
            9          Atlanta, a carpenter.  He didn't have much 
           10          stomach for the way they operated things.
           11               Q      When you were introduced by 
           12          Roger, to Richard, you knew or had in your 
           13          mind that this was an owner of Silo you were 
           14          talking to?
           15               A      Absolutely, yes.
           16               Q      So, Richard and you go privately, 
           17          no one else present besides you and Richard?
           18               A      Yes, sir.
           19               Q      And run the conversation through 
           20          again. 
           21               A      Yes.  Again with the safety 
           22          issues, if there was a problem, I think that 
           23          we shouldn't bother Joe Firth.  They are just 
           24          safety issues; they will work themselves out.
           25               Q      Work themselves out; what does 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                35
            2          that mean?
            3               A      I don't know how it would work 
            4          itself out if you don't change, put an extra 
            5          guy on, put safety railings.  If concrete has 
            6          cracks, someone is going to get killed.
            7               Q      Did you raise those issues with 
            8          respect, all due respect, to Richard:  Who is 
            9          going to correct them?  I don't have to call 
           10          Joe Firth, but will they be corrected?
           11               A      Truthfully, I was a little 
           12          intimidated.
           13               Q      Anything about his conduct or 
           14          speech that was intimidating?
           15               A      Not his speech.  I was standing a 
           16          bit close, a finger.
           17               Q      Was he touching you with his 
           18          finger?
           19               A      Yes.
           20               Q      Was his voice raised?
           21               A      Yes.
           22               Q      He is touching you with his 
           23          finger.
           24               A      The conversation goes from there, 
           25          that he gave me a Social Security number that 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                36
            2          he wants his name on the sheets, he says he 
            3          is going to be there working.  So I took down 
            4          the Social Security number.
            5               Q      What did you take it down in?
            6               A      A book similar to this.
            7               Q      Where is that book?
            8               A      Yeah, it's too bad my cars were   
            9          buried this morning.  It's in one of my cars.
           10               Q      When you return to me, the next 
           11          time, without Katherine, so we can go a 
           12          little bit longer, you should bring whatever 
           13          you didn't bring today that would help me 
           14          document these things; okay?
           15               A      I know; I kept a running log.
           16               Q      That's what I'm asking you.  
           17          That's what I want to ensure.  I want you, 
           18          before you see me again, which may not be -- 
           19          I have to choose a time after we conclude 
           20          today, because I'm a busy little guy here, 
           21          and I have to schedule.  But I want you to 
           22          make sure when you come to me the next time, 
           23          you've brought all the records that may be 
           24          helpful to me in understanding.  
           25                      Take me through this 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                37
            2          conversation.  He's telling you he may send 
            3          someone  -- 
            4               A      Yes.  If I send some guys here to 
            5          the job, you're to let them work.
            6               Q      What does that mean?
            7               A      At that point, I didn't know.  At 
            8          this point, I wasn't sure he was going to 
            9          send some other guys to the job, and I should 
           10          let them work. 
           11               Q      Let them work means what, off the 
           12          sheets or on the sheets?
           13               A      That's exactly -- that wasn't 
           14          clear at all.  
           15                      Let me finish the conversation.
           16               Q      Sure.
           17               A      And then he brought up the fact 
           18          that if there's any problems, if anybody got 
           19          into any trouble on the job, that I was going 
           20          to be the one that was going to pay for it.  
           21          If there's any problem with these issues or 
           22          with the guys working here, you're going to 
           23          be the one that's going to have a problem 
           24          with it.  I didn't sleep too good for the 
           25          next few nights.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                38
            2               Q      He is touching your chest?
            3               A      Once or twice.  We didn't do the 
            4          whole conversation.  He was very emphatic  
            5          with the point that if anything came up, if 
            6          anybody reported this, that I was going to be 
            7          the one to take the fall.  Strangely enough, 
            8          that's how it worked out. 
            9               Q      Take me through, step-by-step.
           10               A      My conversation with him wasn't 
           11          long, three, four, five minutes at the most.  
           12          When he was done talking to me, he -- he 
           13          walked around for a few minutes, and left.  
           14          Then I started a conversation with Roger; 
           15          Roger is like 400 pounds.
           16               Q      Is Roger a strong 400 pounds?
           17               A      No, almost crippled.  He can't 
           18          get around.  Roger pretty much said to me, 
           19          he's the man, he is the boss, he is in 
           20          charge; and if I was smart, just let him do 
           21          pretty much what he wants to do.  
           22                      The week after that, we got two 
           23          or three guys on the job, they were supposed 
           24          to have been dispatched from the list, which 
           25          I think you probably know.  Two or three guys 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                39
            2          that were sent to the job; I'm trying to 
            3          think what job, I think they came from a job 
            4          they had in Queens.
            5               Q      Sent to the job; you're talking 
            6          about 112th and Frederick Douglas?
            7               A      Sorry.  We are talking about 92nd 
            8          Street and Fifth.  I'm sorry.  That job, as I 
            9          said, the one on --
           10               Q      Where was the job that you had 
           11          the pleasure of meeting Mr. Gotti?
           12               A      92nd Street.
           13               Q      You got me confused here.  That's 
           14          your first job.  Let's put this in context.  
           15          I thought you told me that the job at 95th, 
           16          we are going to find it, --
           17               A      I think I've got you very mixed 
           18          up.  There was three jobs I was on for Silo. 
           19               Q      Listen to me.  On February 23, 
           20          2000, on the document which is right in front 
           21          of you, POK-4, you are dispatched as the shop 
           22          steward to 95th and Second Avenue; okay?  So, 
           23          this encounter with Mr. Gotti occurred where?  
           24          At this site?
           25               A      No, it didn't.  It occurred at 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                40
            2          96th Street and the Hudson River.
            3               Q      We have to find that job.
            4               A      Yes. 
            5               Q      It didn't occur at Frederick 
            6          Douglas Boulevard?
            7               A      No. 
            8               Q      Let me finish Frederick Douglas 
            9          Boulevard.  Did anything happen at the 
           10          Frederick Douglas Boulevard job, that was 
           11          improper?
           12               A      Yes, the last month that we were 
           13          there, they had guys that were working on the 
           14          weekends.
           15               Q      "They" being Silo?
           16               A      Yes, Silo had sent people to work 
           17          there on the weekend, four or five weeks 
           18          straight.  I did not put hem on the list; I 
           19          was asked by Perry not to put them on the 
           20          list.
           21               Q      Why didn't you put them on the 
           22          list?
           23               A      Mainly because I would be paid 
           24          for that day without going in.
           25               Q      Let's go.  Turn to December 1st, 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                41
            2          2000 in what you're looking at.  This is the 
            3          job at 112th and Frederick Douglas Boulevard?
            4               A      Correct. 
            5               Q      This is the job which you told 
            6          me, in the last few weeks or months?
            7               A      At the end of the job, the first 
            8          few weeks of the job, as it was finishing up.
            9               Q      The foreman of that job was 
           10          Peter?
           11               A      Perry.  Perry was the foreman for 
           12          two jobs for them that I was on.
           13               Q      He was on the job at 95th Street?
           14               A      Correct.
           15               Q      And he was on this job at 112th 
           16          Street?
           17               A      Correct. 
           18               Q      I've got to be accurate here.  I 
           19          encourage you to be slow and be precise, 
           20          because I don't want the record to be 
           21          imprecise.  
           22                      Let me state it as I understood 
           23          you just told me.  At 112th and Frederick 
           24          Douglas Boulevard, Perry Mastrangelo was your 
           25          foreman?


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                42
            2               A      Yes. 
            3               Q      He asked you in the last several 
            4          weeks of the job, not to keep track on your 
            5          shop steward report, of the overtime hours?
            6               A      Yes, for a couple of weekends 
            7          that they did. 
            8               Q      On those weekends, how many 
            9          carpenters appeared to work, if you know?
           10               A      I'm guessing; six or eight. 
           11               Q      For Silo?
           12               A      Yes.
           13               Q      And you were paid for that  
           14          service by being paid for the day by your not 
           15          being there; is that correct?
           16               A      Yes, that's correct. 
           17               Q      If I go to the shop steward 
           18          reports for this job, at 112th and Frederick 
           19          Douglas Boulevard in the last several weeks, 
           20          I will see no Saturday work; however, there 
           21          would have been Saturday work that was 
           22          unreported?
           23               A      Yes.  For at least two or three 
           24          weeks, yes.
           25               Q      At least two or three weeks; is 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                43
            2          that correct?
            3               A      Yes, it is.
            4               Q      Did you receive anything else, 
            5          besides being paid for those days?
            6               A      No. 
            7               Q      How were you paid for those days, 
            8          if you weren't on the separate sheet, paid 
            9          cash?
           10               A      What they did was, they had three 
           11          or four guys that were there that were on the 
           12          job regularly, would work there on the 
           13          weekend. 
           14               Q      How would they get paid for 
           15          weekend work? 
           16               A      I don't recall if I put them down 
           17          on the sheets and they got time-and-a-half; 
           18          and then they had a few other guys I didn't  
           19          put down; I'm not sure.
           20               Q      When you come back, I would like 
           21          to put that together; and in the meantime, 
           22          I'm going to get the shop steward report.  
           23                      In my business, Mr. Okeefe, 
           24          detail is important.  I'm going to help you 
           25          by gathering things.  But try to be as 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                44
            2          precise as you can be. 
            3               A      I will be.  The thing about it, 
            4          the farther you go back, 1997, 1998, I have a 
            5          pretty good memory.  When I started the chemo 
            6          in 2000, it gets worse.
            7               Q      I'm not being harsh.  I want to 
            8          make certain that you get it right, and I'll 
            9          get you the shop steward reports.  
           10                      Was there anything else, listen 
           11          to the question, was there anything else that 
           12          happened here at this 112th and Frederick 
           13          Douglas Boulevard job with Silo, besides 
           14          these last several weeks, at least two or 
           15          three weeks in which people were not recorded 
           16          properly on Saturdays?
           17               A      No. 
           18               Q      Everything else was okay on that 
           19          job?
           20               A      Yes, it was.
           21               Q      Let me find the next Silo job.   
           22          The next Silo job is the one that you had the 
           23          pleasure of meeting Mr. Gotti; is that 
           24          correct? 
           25               A      Yes. 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                45
            2               Q      Let's find it.
            3               A      We are being facetious when we 
            4          say "pleasure."
            5               Q      I don't want to assume anything.  
            6                      The next Silo job I find for you, 
            7          that doesn't mean I have every job, I try to,  
            8          is December 13, 2001.  The job is 329 West 
            9          96th Street. 
           10               A      That's the next job you have that 
           11          I was dispatched as a shop steward? 
           12               Q      Right.  You may not have been 
           13          dispatched to the job you met Mr. Gotti at.  
           14          Where was the location --
           15               A      Where is this located?  Yes, this 
           16          is it.
           17               Q      It is 393 West 96th Street?
           18               A      This is it, on the water.  You 
           19          can't go any more, you step into the river.
           20               Q      This is it?
           21               A      Yes, where I met Mr. Gotti. 
           22               Q      You got dispatched to this job, 
           23          323 West 96th Street, on December 13, 2001, 
           24          by the records of the District Council?
           25               A      Correct.  I would like to step 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                46
            2          back a little bit.  This is December, the 
            3          middle -- let's see.  September -- beginning 
            4          of August.
            5               Q      2001?
            6               A      Yes, 2001, I got a call from 
            7          Silo, I can't believe I can't remember his 
            8          name, from the boss at Silo, I know exactly 
            9          who he was, saying that he had a job coming 
           10          up on 96th Street, that he would like me to 
           11          be the shop steward on. 
           12               Q      Okay. 
           13               A      I wasn't sure how that could be 
           14          arranged.  I pretty much said, you know, is 
           15          it possible to be arranged.
           16                      "It's luck.  If you're on the top 
           17          of the list, that's luck.  I think we can get 
           18          you in there."   I started working for Silo 
           19          in August, I worked for them at No. 5 42nd 
           20          Street, that's the Times Square area, one, 
           21          two, three, four, five buildings, in the 42nd 
           22          Street area, large construction.  I was in 
           23          No. 3.  I worked there for him for a few 
           24          weeks.  In other words, he was keeping me on 
           25          his payroll working for him in anticipation 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                47
            2          of me going to this job.
            3               Q      96th Street, as a steward?
            4               A      Correct.  Looking back on it is 
            5          how I'm figuring this out.
            6               Q      Okay. 
            7               A      I had the terrible displeasure of 
            8          moving down to Tower 2 on 9/10; I was in 
            9          Tower 2 when it got hit.
           10               Q      Tower 2 of World Trade?
           11               A      Yes. 
           12               Q      Was that a Silo job?
           13               A      Yes, it was, Vanderbilt was the 
           14          name of the contractor.  Vanderbilt hired 
           15          Silo as a subcontractor.  I was working on 
           16          that job.  Of course after it was hit, 
           17          everybody was out for a week or so.  At that 
           18          point, Silo decided they weren't going to pay 
           19          anybody for that week.  They were also not 
           20          going to pay for any of the tools that were 
           21          missing.  
           22                      I called up the same fellow who 
           23          called me, told me I was going to work down 
           24          there; and I told him I didn't think it was 
           25          fair.  We had a little bit of an argument on 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                48
            2          the phone.
            3               Q      Who is that guy -- let me go 
            4          back.  This is important.  It is so important 
            5          that I need to get it right.  
            6                      Before you went to this job at 
            7          96th Street, you were called by someone from 
            8          Silo who wanted you to work, and said that 
            9          you were going to be the shop steward at West 
           10          96th Street?
           11               A      Not that I was definitely going 
           12          to.  "Let's see if we can get you in down 
           13          there."
           14               Q      Who was this person?
           15               A      I can get his name in about 
           16          thirty seconds, if I make a phone call.
           17                      MR. MACK:  Let's take a three- 
           18               minute break.
           19                      (Short recess taken.)
           20                      MR. MACK:  Let's go on the 
           21               record.
           22               Q      We've taken a short break.  We 
           23          are going to work for another half-hour, and 
           24          then we are going to quit so I honor my 
           25          commitment to you.  


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                49
            2                      I would like you to be as precise 
            3          as possible on this telephone call.  At least 
            4          as I understand, Silo was going to put you to 
            5          work until they could arrange for you to be 
            6          shop steward?
            7               A      Yes. 
            8               Q      Who called you?
            9               A      Albert.
           10               Q      Who was Albert?
           11               A      Albert, as far as I know, is one 
           12          of the main owners of Silo.  Again, the talk 
           13          among the guys is that Albert's father was a 
           14          mafioso guy that talked.
           15               Q      Was there any identity -- I have 
           16          been involved in organized crime prosecutions 
           17          for many years, but I'm very resistant to 
           18          rumor and what have you.  So, my viewpoint 
           19          is, was Albert's last name available to you?
           20               A      At that time?  Yes.
           21               Q      You're going to try to find his 
           22          name for me?
           23               A      Again, if I were to call, it 
           24          would take me a few minutes to get it.  I'll 
           25          get that.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                50
            2               Q      Albert called you.  What did he 
            3          say to you about where he wanted to put you 
            4          to work?
            5               A      The usual:  Where are you, where 
            6          are you working now; I have a job on 96th 
            7          Street that I would like to get you in there 
            8          as the shop steward; maybe it can be done, 
            9          possibly it could be done.   
           10                      I said, well, you know, I'm going 
           11          to be going to work at another job soon.  I 
           12          got to get to work now.  He basically put me 
           13          on work with Silo.
           14               Q      Where?  In Times Square?
           15               A      Sometimes for a few days, World 
           16          Trade Center for a few days.
           17               Q      Where else?
           18               A      That was it. 
           19               Q      I'll tell you, your benefit 
           20          records for the summer, let's say August 
           21          2001 -- I'm looking at the same record you 
           22          have -- basically that exhibit, just for the 
           23          record -- Shame on me; that exhibit is POK-2.  
           24                      Take a look at POK-2, because 
           25          that's a key in to -- they are your benefit 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                51
            2          fund records and they reflect Silo 
            3          Construction reported 168 hours for you for 
            4          the month of August 2001.  So that's a full 
            5          month. 
            6               A      Yes, that's correct.  That would 
            7          be between the Time Squares job and the World 
            8          Trade Center job.  168 hours.  That's more 
            9          than a month's work.
           10               Q      So there's overtime in there.  We 
           11          are going to get the shop steward reports.  
           12          But the point is, Albert put you to work, 
           13          what, as a company man?
           14               A      Yes. 
           15               Q      At Times Square, World Trade 
           16          Center.  What after World Trade?
           17               A      Nowhere.  Right to, next time I 
           18          worked after World Trade Center, October, 
           19          November, December, for Silo, I didn't work 
           20          for them again until this job.
           21               Q      This job, being 96th Street?
           22               A      Yes, 96th Street.
           23               Q      I will tell you that your benefit 
           24          records, your benefit records reflect 91 
           25          hours for Silo in October, and 70 hours in 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                52
            2          November.  So you may have been on the 96th 
            3          Street job working for Silo.  You know, I can 
            4          get records from Silo eventually.  I don't 
            5          want to do that to start.
            6               A      I never went there except as the 
            7          shop steward.  This is, like, the first time 
            8          I went there.  I was looking at it because I 
            9          expected to go there as a shop steward.
           10               Q      I just want to capture again the 
           11          September 11th.  You were working at -- Silo 
           12          was a subcontractor to whom?
           13               A      Vanderbilt. 
           14               Q      And Vanderbilt was working where?
           15               A      5th floor.
           16               Q      Of which tower?
           17               A      Two. 
           18               Q      What kind of work was happening 
           19          there?
           20               A      Carpentry work.
           21               Q      You were there as a mechanic?
           22               A      Yes. 
           23               Q      How many carpenters were there?
           24               A      There was another shop steward 
           25          there.  I would be guessing, eight, nine.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                53
            2               Q      Do you know who the shop steward 
            3          on that job was?
            4               A      No.
            5               Q      Was there a shop steward report? 
            6               A      I never saw it.  I was told there 
            7          was.  I -- actually, the conversation I was 
            8          speaking about a few moments ago about asking 
            9          where are the guys' tools they lost, I was 
           10          saying where is the shop steward -- is there 
           11          someplace I can get a copy of the shop 
           12          steward report so we can get the guys' tools 
           13          replaced.
           14               Q      Who are you talking about, 
           15          Albert?
           16               A      Yes.  Basically it was "contact 
           17          the shop steward that was there, see if he 
           18          has the report."  I called Local 608.  It was 
           19          a busy time for everybody.
           20               Q      Right.
           21               A      But they basically did nothing at 
           22          all to try and obtain some kind of 
           23          compensation for the tools for these guys.
           24               Q      Do you remember any of the names 
           25          of carpenters?


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                54
            2               A      Oh, yeah.
            3               Q      Fellow carpenters who were there?  
            4                      Look at what I'm going to mark 
            5          for my purposes, your book, which I'm going 
            6          to mark as POK-10.  I have a copy of that, 
            7          but --
            8               A      Give me one minute.
            9                      (Pause.)
           10                      (Book maintained by Mr. Okeefe, 
           11          marked Exhibit POK-10.)
           12               A      I can put down Errol Cummings, I 
           13          know he was there.
           14               Q      Is Errol Cummings' Social 
           15          Security or UBC number available?
           16               A      Social Security is 109-76-3273.
           17               Q      Errol Cummings?
           18               A      Yes.  Like I said, Errol is a 
           19          friend.  I'm speaking to him on the phone 
           20          today or tomorrow.
           21               Q      I'm not going to take any action 
           22          until I finish with you.  I want to get your 
           23          side of the facts before I reach out to 
           24          anyone or anything.
           25               A      Facts are facts now.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                55
            2               Q      I will tell you this, sometimes 
            3          people construe facts differently than 
            4          others, that's why it makes the jury system 
            5          as good as it is. 
            6               A      Michael Betts.
            7               Q      What part of your book are you 
            8          looking at?
            9               A      No page number, really.  February 
           10          25th of 2000.
           11               Q      Where are we looking?
           12               A      These are names that come into my 
           13          head.  I know Mike was there, for sure, I 
           14          knew him well.  Wilson Ortega, he was there.  
           15          Those are about the only ones I could say for 
           16          sure, but of course there's got to be a 
           17          record of dispatch for the shop steward.
           18               Q      Not if the job is unannounced.  
           19          It looks like it was carried, because you got 
           20          benefits for it. 
           21               A      I'm still missing 400 hours' 
           22          worth of benefits.  I thought I had the 
           23          records in here.  It was put in the file as a 
           24          stamp shortage, never paid.  I called every 
           25          week, next week, next week.  They were just 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                56
            2          making excuses down the line, and then Silo 
            3          is gone; they are not in the union anymore.  
            4          Basically I lost 400 hours' worth of 
            5          benefits. 
            6               Q      This wasn't for time that has 
            7          happened so far, right?
            8               A      Well, it is starting.  It is at 
            9          the 96th Street job.
           10               Q      We are not quite at that job yet.  
           11          You're working for Silo.  Tell me about this 
           12          dispatch to the 96th Street job; how did it 
           13          work out that in fact, if you know, that you 
           14          in fact did get dispatched as the shop 
           15          steward to the 96th Street job?  How did that 
           16          come about?
           17               A      It is a coincidence, as far as 
           18          everybody else was concerned, it's a 
           19          coincidence.  You and I and probably him 
           20          know, it wasn't a coincidence.  This is the 
           21          third or fourth job that I have been 
           22          dispatched to, to Silo.  This is the first 
           23          job when I met Mr. Gotti, and he made clear 
           24          what he wants.
           25               Q      Let's go back to the dispatch. 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                57
            2               A      Sorry.  Ordinary dispatch, they 
            3          call you the night before on the phone, job 
            4          number, address; simple dispatches.
            5               Q      This was not an immediate or 
            6          anything like that, anything unusual about 
            7          this dispatch to 96th Street?
            8               A      No. 
            9               Q      How do you think Albert was able 
           10          to get you up to this 96th Street job?
           11               A      The management of 608, John 
           12          Greaney, I believe.  I'm speculating here.
           13               Q      I want to hear the basis for your 
           14          speculation. 
           15               A      Tells -- they need a man at the 
           16          World Trade Center, the man's qualifications 
           17          have to be this, in a certain order.  Given 
           18          in a certain order.  If you are anywhere 
           19          within the two or three hundred people on the 
           20          list, they will look for woodworking, 
           21          drywall, layout, blueprints, they will go 
           22          down the list, skip over each shop steward 
           23          until they find one with those qualifications 
           24          exactly.  And that's how you dispatch that 
           25          one.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                58
            2               Q      Did anyone figure out, you know, 
            3          as far as you know, what skills were 
            4          necessary to describe, that would result in 
            5          your being dispatched as the shop steward?
            6               A      Oh, yeah, I was told exactly what 
            7          skills to call in and to put on the list, you 
            8          know, put -- how can I say it -- I had my 
            9          skills down already as blueprint, drywall.  I 
           10          spoke to John Greaney.
           11               Q      Hold it a minute.  I'm not 
           12          unfamiliar with this little dance.  Get your 
           13          job referral history out.  You have a copy of 
           14          that.  We are going to look at it.  That will 
           15          help me understand.
           16               A      Referral dispatch, I have it 
           17          right here. 
           18               Q      Just bear with me.  I'll tell you 
           19          what it is.
           20               A      Pete Scalia.
           21               Q      Right.  POK-3. Shortly before 
           22          December 2001.
           23                      Now I'll show you how to read it. 
           24               A      What page?
           25               Q      Page 9, in the upper right-hand 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                59
            2          corner, of POK-3.
            3               A      Got it. 
            4               Q      Look at December 3rd. 
            5               A      Got it.  Add to list. 
            6               Q      Go through this with me, you can 
            7          do this on your own.  This is what I do, it 
            8          is part of my job.  December 3, the time is 
            9          7:31, because it is California time.  The 
           10          actual time is 10:31.  So at 10:31 in the 
           11          morning on December 3, you, Peter Okeefe, 
           12          were added to the 157 list.  This entry, 
           13          December 5th, 11:32, you're added to the 608 
           14          list.  December 10 you add the skill of wood 
           15          framing?
           16               A      That's the thing.
           17               Q      Wood framing.  You also add 
           18          protection, and shortly after that, 12/13, 
           19          2001, you are referred to your 96th Street 
           20          job. 
           21               A      Right.
           22               Q      So the questions I'm asking you 
           23          are, why did you, on December 10, add the 
           24          skills of wood framing and protection?
           25               A      I was told to put these on.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                60
            2               Q      By whom?
            3               A      John Greaney. 
            4               Q      Let's stop for a minute.  We have 
            5          to go slowly.  You had been told my Albert 
            6          back sometime, August, what have you, that he 
            7          wanted you to come to the 96th Street job.
            8               A      As a steward.
            9               Q      Had you had any conversations 
           10          with John Greaney on that subject?
           11               A      No, up until that point, no.
           12               Q      Tell me about these skill 
           13          additions here on December 10. 
           14               A      When I spoke to Mr. Greaney --
           15               Q      Why did you speak to him?  Were 
           16          you told to speak to him, or did he call you?
           17               A      I don't remember specifically.  I 
           18          was in the office, I may have been dropping 
           19          off some papers, or maybe I just went there 
           20          to speak to him.  I'm not sure. 
           21               Q      So you're in 608?
           22               A      Right. 
           23               Q      You're a 157 member?
           24               A      Yes. 
           25               Q      Why are you in 608? 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                61
            2               A      Probably dropping off missing 
            3          shop steward reports from my reports.  I 
            4          don't remember.  It's four, five years ago.  
            5          I was trying to follow up on Albert's idea as 
            6          to getting me in there as shop steward.
            7               Q      Were you told to see John Greaney 
            8          about this, or did John say, hey, Peter, 
            9          while you're here, I want to talk to you?
           10               A      Pretty much Albert said you 
           11          should try to talk to John about maybe 
           12          getting you in there as a shop steward.
           13               Q      Are you sure he said maybe, or 
           14          was it your idea to talk to John?
           15               A      Specifically, I don't remember. 
           16               Q      The interim time, you're only 
           17          here another ten minutes, this is the type of 
           18          questioning I go through here, and we have 
           19          records to help us.  The reason what you tell 
           20          me smacks of the truth, as they say in my 
           21          business, you told me about adding skills and 
           22          then we went to your sheet, and you did add 
           23          skills a few days beforehand.
           24               A      I told you when I got here, I'm 
           25          shooting straight.


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                62
            2               Q      I want you to think carefully, 
            3          because this is important testimony, and we 
            4          need to get it right.
            5               A      A lot of memories.
            6               Q      We stirred up some of those 
            7          memories?
            8               A      Funny you should say that -- can 
            9          we stop for one second? 
           10                      MR. MACK:  Off the record.
           11                      (Discussion off the record.)
           12                      MR. MACK:  Back on the record.
           13               Q      I'm a fact guy.
           14               A      Got you. 
           15               Q      I need to know why you put the 
           16          two skills on the list.
           17               A      John Greaney said that was the 
           18          way to go with it, that was how to become a 
           19          shop steward down there.
           20               Q      You say down there, we are 
           21          talking about 96th Street?
           22               A      Yes.  I have to remember that.  
           23          That's on the water.  We'll call that one on 
           24          the water. 
           25               Q      What I need you to tell me, if 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                63
            2          not now, the next time, is:  How did this 
            3          conversation with John Greaney occur?
            4               A      I mean, I was certainly anxious 
            5          to be the shop steward there.
            6               Q      I can understand that.  But I'm 
            7          not interested in supposition, I'm 
            8          interested -- did you seek out John, did John 
            9          seek you out, did you go to John and say, 
           10          John, I want to go to the job with Silo?
           11               A      I would say I wound up talking to 
           12          him at Albert's suggestion:  Go down and 
           13          speak to John, if you're in the neighborhood 
           14          you should talk to John.  
           15                      I don't hear from Albert; now, 
           16          all of a sudden, I am hearing from him.
           17               Q      Did you talk to John?
           18               A      Yes.
           19               Q      Where do you see John?
           20               A      In his office.
           21               Q      Who is present?
           22               A      I was just going to say me and 
           23          John, but I keep seeing a third person in the 
           24          office. 
           25               Q      Think about it.  And then my next 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                64
            2          question is:  Who said what to whom?
            3               A      I pretty much asked John if there 
            4          was any way that I could become a shop 
            5          steward on that certain job.
            6               Q      Did you identify the 96th Street 
            7          job for Silo?
            8               A      Yes.
            9               Q      Did you say that?
           10               A      Yes. 
           11               Q      Did John know what you were 
           12          talking about?
           13               A      Yes.  I said to him, what's going 
           14          on with the job down 96th Street, I was 
           15          hoping to get in there as a shop steward.  
           16                      He didn't say a whole lot.  He 
           17          said, yeah, we are getting there, we are 
           18          working on it.  Then we had a conversation, 
           19          he said, you know, to add these skills to 
           20          your list.
           21               Q      He said add protection --
           22               A      Wrote me two little yellow slips 
           23          of paper. 
           24               Q      Where are they?
           25               A      Good question.  One was a phone 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                65
            2          number directly to the dispatch office, 
            3          confirming with a guy named Kenny.
            4               Q      To do what?
            5               A      To confirm that I had followed 
            6          the instruction on the other little yellow 
            7          sheet of paper, which was add woodworking, 
            8          add a couple of more skills in a certain 
            9          order.
           10               Q      I don't think the order means a 
           11          lot.  What I have on your job referral, which 
           12          you will take home with you today, there's a 
           13          way to put this stuff together; added on 
           14          December 10, 2001, wood framing and 
           15          protection.  Are you telling me that John 
           16          Greaney told you to put those skills on?
           17               A      Yes.
           18               Q      No question about that?
           19               A      No question about that.
           20               Q      Did he write you a note?
           21               A      He wrote it on this square sheet, 
           22          two little notes, I think I still have the 
           23          phone number.  I'll tear the car apart.
           24               Q      I need you to look for those 
           25          pieces, it is very important to me that the 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                66
            2          paperwork be found. 
            3               A      You have to understand one thing.  
            4          At the end of this job, when I finally 
            5          realized that I was going to be the one to 
            6          take the fall for everybody, I was going into 
            7          the court for the District Council, I had 
            8          requested help.  I requested people to come 
            9          down and help me out with this.  And 
           10          basically all the information I gave them, 
           11          all the evidence I gave them, might as well 
           12          have thrown it in the garbage.  
           13                      I thought when I handed over the 
           14          petition, I thought I was going to get a call 
           15          saying forget why you have to come down, this 
           16          shows right here you were trying not to go 
           17          along with this guy, that you're calling Joe 
           18          Firth for help. 
           19               Q      We didn't get there yet.  You're 
           20          going to have the full opportunity to tell me 
           21          what happened here, but I need to go 
           22          step-by-step.  Right now you haven't been 
           23          assigned there yet, because we are trying to 
           24          figure out how you got assigned.  
           25                      You're telling me under oath, 


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                67
            2          that John Greaney told you to add these 
            3          skills?
            4               A      Yes. 
            5               Q      And he wrote you on the piece of 
            6          paper in his writing, wasn't your writing, it 
            7          was his writing, what skills to put down; is 
            8          that correct?
            9               A      Yes.  Two pieces of paper, one 
           10          with skills on it, and then he wanted me to 
           11          be sure about it:  Here's the phone number of 
           12          the dispatch office; call Kenny when you're 
           13          all done, it is on your list.  I think I 
           14          still have the phone number.
           15               Q      Why don't you have the skills 
           16          piece of paper?
           17               A      I don't know. 
           18               Q      You're going to look for that, 
           19          too, for me?
           20               A      I could say that maybe it was in 
           21          the briefcase that was just lost.
           22               Q      Don't say it unless it is true.
           23               A      No.
           24               Q      I will certainly want to get the 
           25          contents of the briefcase.  


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            1                          Peter Okeefe                68
            2                      Let's keep going.  You put the 
            3          skills down that he told you to put on?
            4               A      Yes, called it in, put them on.
            5               Q      You did that.  And then what 
            6          h