UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff,
90 CIV 5722
-against- (CSH)
DISTRICT COUNCIL OF NEW YORK CITY
AND VICINITY OF THE UNITED
BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND
JOINERS OF AMERICA, et. al.,
Defendants.
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Independent Investigator Deposition
February 25, 2005
10:00 o'clock a.m.
DEPOSITION of PETER OKEEFE, taken by the
Independent Investigator, Walter Mack, Esq., at
the offices of Doar, Rieck & Mack, Esqs., 217
Broadway, 7th floor, New York, New York
10007-2911, before Stewart Nissenbaum, a Shorthand
Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New
York.
TANKOOS REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
305 Madison Avenue 142 Willis Avenue
Suite 449 P.O. BOX 347
New York, N.Y. 10165 Mineola, N.Y. 11501
(212)349-9692 (516)741-5235
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A P P E A R A N C E S :
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DOAR RIECK & MACK, ESQS.
4 217 Broadway, 7th Floor
New York, New York 10007-2911
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BY: WALTER MACK, ESQ.
6 Independent Investigator
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2 MR. MACK: Let's go on the
3 record, please.
4 I want to go over, Mr. Okeefe,
5 with you, what I just said in summary
6 fashion; because as I've told you, I
7 work for Federal Judge Haight, and I
8 have been appointed by Court Order as
9 Independent Investigator, with certain
10 responsibilities which include gathering
11 facts and writing reports. I have no
12 disciplinary authority of my own. My
13 job is basically as an investigator to
14 gather facts and to write reports, and
15 ask others to act on those.
16 Basically, I have to tell you,
17 that I have been interested in several
18 aspects of some Complete Construction
19 jobs that have come to my attention, but
20 in reviewing what I have been furnished
21 by the District Council, it is clear to
22 me that there are other topics I'm
23 interested in talking to you about. You
24 have been requested to be here today
25 pursuant to my authority as Independent
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2 Investigator to require any carpenter to
3 appear on notice. And I also have the
4 authority to require noncarpenters to
5 appear, with the judge's permission.
6 You, as any carpenter who sits
7 where you sit, and many have sat there
8 in the last two years, have certain
9 rights. And I want to make sure that
10 you have the benefit of those.
11 First of all, if you wish, you
12 have a right to an attorney, to have an
13 attorney present to assist you at any
14 time, and to provide legal advice. It
15 makes no difference to me whether you
16 have one or not.
17 MR. OKEEFE: I spoke to my
18 next-door neighbor, a friend, an
19 attorney. He just said come down and be
20 honest with you.
21 MR. MACK: If at any time today
22 you wish to change your mind, all you
23 have to do is tell me, and you'll be
24 given the opportunity to find counsel; I
25 won't give you a lot of time, and I want
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2 to proceed.
3 The District Council, although my
4 appointment has been about two years,
5 they are asking to terminate me and
6 prevent me from continuing; and that is
7 an issue before the District Court right
8 now. So, the point I'm making here is,
9 that the judge would require of me that
10 I be absolutely fair and open, and the
11 judge or his clerk will be reading this
12 transcript, and would want to ensure
13 that I gave you all your rights and
14 explained them.
15 Another right you have is, if you
16 wish, you could have the District
17 Council and the Government present at
18 this interview, and it is my
19 understanding, we discussed that about a
20 week ago, and you are willing to
21 participate without their presence; is
22 that correct?
23 MR. OKEEFE: Very much correct
24 that I don't want the District Council
25 to even know I was here.
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2 MR. MACK: Eventually, at some
3 time, if you act upon some of the
4 matters you described, they are likely
5 to get a copy of this transcript,
6 eventually, unless there's something
7 that comes up that you feel I should ask
8 the Court to seal.
9 MR. OKEEFE: My basic fear, that
10 I'm going through disability pension,
11 right now. They speak subtly when they
12 want to send a message. I told you I
13 was a little surprised I got a phone
14 call, now my pension is in question for
15 several years. I supplied records for
16 those years; now they are going at a
17 different set of years.
18 MR. MACK: If at any time, today
19 or in the future, anyone seeks to
20 influence your obligation, which is to
21 tell the truth, the whole truth, and
22 nothing but the truth, either by
23 discouraging you or in some way trying
24 to prevent you from telling me what the
25 facts and the truth are, you should let
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2 me know. That's a federal offense.
3 MR. OKEEFE: Mr. Russo, I was
4 explaining about the District Council;
5 they asked me to give a statement, and
6 then they were requesting that I add
7 things to that statement at the end.
8 Did he say this, well, that's the truth;
9 well, if he said that, then you should
10 put that down. They try to give you a
11 push in a certain direction.
12 MR. MACK: Who is the "they"?
13 MR. OKEEFE: Scott Danielson.
14 MR. MACK: The most important
15 thing I or any attorney would say to you
16 is, that certainly you'll be placed
17 under oath. Really, the only way that
18 you and I can have a problem is if you
19 lie to me, don't tell me the truth. As
20 I say to everybody who appears before
21 me, that if they lie, you can be certain
22 I will recommend that you be prosecuted
23 for perjury or obstruction of justice.
24 I don't do the prosecution; I'm not a
25 prosecutor. I have been a prosecutor,
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2 but I recommend to the Court, and I know
3 the judge feels the same way as I do,
4 the purpose of these interviews is to
5 gather the truth.
6 MR. OKEEFE: Tommy Zugibe is my
7 next-door neighbor. He is a judge and
8 attorney and a great friend. He must
9 have said that to me three times last
10 night.
11 MR. MACK: I just want to make
12 certain I said, whether you have an
13 attorney or not, that you have to honor
14 your oath. So I would encourage you to
15 be as precise as you can be, and
16 accurate. Should you lie to me, you not
17 only can be charged with perjury or
18 lying under oath, but because I'm a
19 Court Officer seeking facts, if you try
20 to deceive me by withholding information
21 or giving me false information, that
22 also could be an obstruction of justice;
23 and both of those are federal crimes and
24 carry with them possible sentences or
25 fines and imprisonment. I'm not
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2 singling you out. It is a warning I
3 give every witness who comes here.
4 Another right that you have is
5 your Fifth Amendment right. And that
6 is, if I should ask you a question which
7 would tend to incriminate you
8 personally, because this is a proceeding
9 of the District Court, you have the
10 right to refuse to answer that question,
11 based on the ground it might tend to
12 incriminate you.
13 What I would suggest to you under
14 those circumstances is, that if you are
15 asked a question, which I don't
16 anticipate asking, it is not what I
17 anticipate, it is what goes on in your
18 mind, I would recommend under those
19 circumstances that you do consult with
20 counsel before you do so. But although
21 I'm not a criminal prosecutor, it is my
22 habit for any individual who does assert
23 the Fifth Amendment, to refer that
24 assertion to a criminal prosecutor.
25 MR. OKEEFE: Someone stops you to
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2 take a drug test, you say no; first
3 thing, you're drunk.
4 MR. MACK: It doesn't mean that.
5 But at the same time, I can refer it to
6 a prosecutor to assess. I would tell
7 you this: If you do take the Fifth
8 Amendment, when I gave you an
9 opportunity to tell me your side, you
10 assert the privilege, I can choose
11 whether to accept another person's
12 story. I want to say this on the record
13 again, I want to hear your side of
14 things. I want to clearly get your
15 view.
16 I have requested from the
17 District Council, a variety of records
18 concerning you; but I have learned from
19 long experience, records only tell some
20 things, and I need to hear from you on a
21 number of topics.
22 Another factor today is that you
23 brought your daughter with you today,
24 and you've told me that you can only
25 give me until noon, which is about an
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2 hour and fifteen minutes away. I will
3 honor that, but I want you to understand
4 that basically in the future, I will
5 need you to come back so we can complete
6 this.
7 MR. OKEEFE: I'll be here as long
8 as we need to do it,
9 MR. MACK: Having said that, is
10 there anything on your mind, or that you
11 would like to ask me before we begin?
12 MR. OKEEFE: Only pertaining to
13 records you might want to try to ask the
14 District Council for.
15 MR. MACK: Tell me what I should
16 ask for.
17 MR. OKEEFE: The two petitions
18 concerning my first trial I had with the
19 council.
20 MR. MACK: We have to talk one at
21 a time, so that Mr. Nissenbaum, who has
22 had the misfortune of working with me
23 for decades, can make an accurate
24 record, which is important to us and the
25 judge.
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2 Tell me, and I'll listen. What
3 should I be requesting, what documents?
4 MR. OKEEFE: Two petitions I gave
5 to Mr. Scott Danielson.
6 MR. MACK: Describe the petitions
7 for me.
8 MR. OKEEFE: Stating that Peter
9 Okeefe has not engaged in any nonunion
10 activities, and has tried his very best
11 to get help from the business agent, Joe
12 Firth.
13 MR. MACK: Who signed these
14 petitions?
15 MR. OKEEFE: That's something I'm
16 going to have to give you to do. It's
17 shop stewards from the job and a
18 foreman.
19 MR. MACK: I assume that you will
20 be telling me how these petitions, why
21 they are created, as you take me through
22 the particular issue.
23 MR. OKEEFE: Exactly. When I
24 learned of the charges against me, I
25 knew at that time; I said, it is not
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2 true. And I went down, spoke to the
3 guys on the job, who said, we're willing
4 to sign petitions, because we are here
5 on the job; we see what's going on. We
6 know the truth.
7 MR. MACK: We are getting to that
8 one other thing the judge would ask me
9 to do. I know you have, I'm not asking
10 you to describe it in any detail, some
11 medical conditions that may affect your
12 ability to function up to full strength.
13 If at any time today, you feel the need
14 to take a break, or something of that
15 nature, you ought to tell me, and we'll
16 take a break.
17 Second of all, if you don't
18 understand any of my questions, you can
19 ask me, I'll try to clarify them.
20 Third of all, we have to make
21 sure, so that the record is clear, let
22 me finish my question before you start
23 answering, because otherwise the record
24 will not be clear. As I've told you, I
25 need the record so I can be certain I
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2 know what you said. This is not like an
3 interview process, it is like a process
4 in which I want to ask a question and
5 have your answer, and have
6 Mr. Nissenbaum record it in his
7 stenotype machine, so that when I read
8 it or the judge reads it in the future,
9 we know what you said, so there's not a
10 question of guessing. In other words,
11 to do that, you need to let me finish my
12 question, and then you answer. Fair
13 enough?
14 MR. OKEEFE: Yes.
15 MR. MACK: Any questions at all
16 you would like to ask me before we
17 start?
18 MR. OKEEFE: Nothing about what
19 we discussed. The only other papers you
20 might want to ask for, were the persons
21 present at that meeting, three or four
22 weeks ago, Mr. Russo was there, the
23 copies of the shop steward reports
24 concerning Mr. Gotti.
25 MR. MACK: Let me say, I
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2 mentioned, Mr. Russo works for me, as an
3 investigator assigned to my staff. And
4 he is assigned -- basically, I have
5 known him, as I say, for decades, he is
6 a former FBI agent and someone who I
7 have absolute trust and confidence in.
8 Do you have possession of these
9 records?
10 MR. OKEEFE: No. But he had
11 looked at the person next to him, and he
12 held it up and said, this is Mr. Gotti's
13 writing here and his Social Security
14 number. My briefcase was forced open,
15 and they were taken. I hope the
16 originals are intact.
17 MR. MACK: What you're telling me
18 is, when you were interviewed recently
19 at the District Council, those
20 documents, those shop steward reports,
21 were present at the interview room?
22 MR. OKEEFE: Yes.
23 MR. MACK: Anything else you
24 would like to ask me before we start?
25 MR. OKEEFE: No.
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2 MR. MACK: Let me ask that the
3 witness be sworn, please.
4 P E T E R O K E E F E , the witness
5 herein, being first duly sworn by Stewart
6 Nissenbaum, a Notary Public of the State of
7 New York, was examined and testified as
8 follows:
9 EXAMINATION BY
10 MR. MACK:
11 Q Now, you have said and spelled
12 for the record, your name; if not, let's make
13 sure we have it on the record. What is your
14 name?
15 A Peter Okeefe.
16 Q Spell your last name.
17 A O-k-e-e-f-e.
18 Q How long, Mr. Okeefe, have you
19 been a carpenter?
20 A Since 1972.
21 Q And I know you are on disability
22 now?
23 A I applied for pension disability
24 and Social Security disability, due to a type
25 of liver cancer I have. So far, so good.
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2 Q I'm sorry to hear that. We hope
3 for the best health outcome that can happen.
4 You are here today because of
5 questions that have arisen concerning a
6 number of topics that I will cover. As I've
7 said to you already, our time is limited
8 today, so I would like you to select for me,
9 in your mind, the most important issue in
10 which you think that either you have been
11 treated unfairly, or you feel should come to
12 the Court's attention. I'm an agent of the
13 Court. What would that topic be?
14 A I would like to go sequentially
15 from the beginning, '99 and on.
16 Q So in 1999, what was your
17 situation at the District Council or in the
18 union? Were you qualified as a shop steward?
19 A I was qualified as a shop
20 steward, yes. I had not found out about my
21 liver disease at that point. The first job I
22 worked on for Silo was at 92nd Street and
23 Second Avenue.
24 Q Could you tell me, first of all,
25 and again, we have to be careful here, so
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2 that we don't -- you and I don't overlap our
3 answers, tell me a little bit about Silo,
4 when you first went to work for Silo.
5 A That's the very first job that I
6 had for Silo.
7 Q That was what year?
8 A 1999.
9 Q Before I get started, what is
10 Silo? Give me some idea, at least at that
11 time.
12 A Silo Construction; I can't think
13 of the gentleman's name who owns it.
14 Q Is Silo Construction still in
15 business today?
16 A They are in business, but they
17 are on Long Island. And I don't believe they
18 are involved with the union anymore.
19 Q All right. You're going to come
20 back --
21 A I'm going to write a lot of this
22 down.
23 Q Silo Construction, what, how did
24 you come to work for Silo Construction?
25 A I was appointed as shop steward
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2 from the union.
3 Q And that job was where?
4 A 92nd Street and Second Avenue,
5 and that would be in the jurisdiction of
6 Local 157.
7 Q Your local is what?
8 A 157.
9 Q So you take me through. What
10 happened there?
11 A I was there for about a year on
12 that job. Gentleman named Perry Mastrangelo
13 was the foreman there. Perry and I became
14 very friendly, a nice guys, a good
15 journeyman. He didn't ask for anything, the
16 men to work on weekend; everything was kept
17 on the up-and-up.
18 Q Were you doing shop steward
19 reports at the time?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Were your shop steward reports
22 accurate in every respect?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Was there cash on that job during
25 the early time period, that you knew about?
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2 A No, not that I know of. I'm just
3 guessing. I shouldn't guess. Some work that
4 was done on the weekends, I didn't get
5 records from, I didn't get reports from. But
6 I know some work was done on the weekends;
7 that's minimal.
8 Q On the work that was done on the
9 weekends, did you talk to Mr. Mastrangelo
10 about how that work got done, and why you
11 weren't informed of it?
12 A He said they worked a little one
13 day, and got it done.
14 Q You should have been informed of
15 that, to record those hours; correct?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Was that ever a subject of
18 discussion between you and Mr. Mastrangelo?
19 A Nothing that I pushed; nothing
20 that I would really push to the floor. It
21 was minimal; at most, two or three weekends.
22 Q Tell me what I should hear about
23 that.
24 A That job, I would have to say
25 when I first went to work for Silo, we didn't
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1 Peter Okeefe 21
2 have any problems at all. It was in the 157
3 district. Fred Kennedy being the business
4 agent, it was always right on the button if I
5 called him to come down for help. We had a
6 little problem with some of the cement
7 workers out front; I wanted to make sure the
8 cement workers were carpenters. There's a
9 cement block this high, cement workers are
10 supposed to be -- it was a question of which
11 cement work was in whose jurisdiction,
12 carpenter or cement worker. That was
13 straightened out. Not many problems on that
14 job at all.
15 Q When you say "that job," we are
16 talking about 92md and Second Avenue?
17 A Right. That was the first one I
18 did for Silo.
19 Q Take me right through the
20 narrative.
21 A Now, within a year, the job I
22 left, I was out of work for two or three
23 weeks; I was assigned to another Silo job.
24 Q How did that come to pass; how
25 did you get to another Silo job?
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2 A That's a good question. I didn't
3 request to go to another Silo job; I didn't
4 ask. I was on the waiting list for the
5 Bronx, Uptown area, which is where the job
6 was. I know Perry said they had fired three
7 shop stewards, one came in, went out; came
8 in, went out.
9 Q Bear with me for a moment, I have
10 your -- I want to give you some documents
11 today. They may be of use to you; but this
12 may be too early.
13 On this job at 92nd and Second,
14 when are we talking about? Are we talking
15 about '99 or 2000?
16 A We are into 2000.
17 Q Let me give you a copy of your
18 work referral history.
19 A It is 112th Street and Martin
20 Luther King Boulevard.
21 Q Let me gather the documents
22 first. I've given you POK, which stands for
23 Peter Okeefe, number 3. Take that and look
24 at that for yourself.
25 I'm also going to give you POK-4,
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2 which is a record of your dispatches from the
3 District Council.
4 And I'm going to give you, which
5 is often important to me when trying to
6 decide whether people are riding the
7 out-of-work list, your benefit history,
8 POK-2.
9 A Great.
10 Q Those are yours to keep.
11 A Thank you.
12 (Benefit history marked Exhibit
13 PKO-2.)
14 (Job referral history marked
15 Exhibit PKO-3.)
16 (Dispatches marked Exhibit
17 PKO-4.)
18 Q What I would like you to do for
19 me, maybe we can do this, because I'm a
20 detail person and document person, I want to
21 find your dispatch to the Silo job, so I'm
22 going to pull out these documents. If you
23 could give me an approximate date that I
24 should look for, I will try to find it.
25 A I see a lot of adding to the work
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2 list, but I didn't see the dispatches for the
3 actual -- that would be in this one.
4 Q Pick out POK-4. The first job I
5 see you here, and recognize, is February 23,
6 2000, sending you to 95th Street and Second
7 Avenue. Look for February 23, 2000.
8 A Yes, that's that job.
9 Q Let's just -- I want to be as
10 precise as I can be for the benefit of the
11 District Council records.
12 A I have to tell you, dates; I'm
13 just terrible with dates.
14 Q That's why we have the documents.
15 So the document that we found here reflects
16 your being dispatched on February 23, 2000 to
17 a Silo Construction job at 95th and Second
18 Avenue. Is that your first Silo job?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Let's correct the situation, so
21 the record is accurate, that it is 95th and
22 Second Avenue, rather than 92nd; is that
23 right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And it is in early 2000, rather
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2 than '99?
3 A Correct.
4 Q So, new I'm going to keep looking
5 through your dispatches.
6 The next time I find a dispatch
7 to a Silo job for you is on December 1st,
8 2000. You have everything I have. It is to
9 the Silo job at 112th Street and Frederick
10 Douglas Boulevard?
11 A That's it. Did you say
12 September?
13 Q Excuse me. December 1st, 2000,
14 in the exhibit which you are looking at,
15 which is POK-4.
16 A Got it.
17 Q Is this your second Silo job?
18 A Yes, it is.
19 Q Tell me about this job.
20 A This job, originally I started
21 there from the very beginning of the job.
22 There were only three carpenters there for a
23 long time, for two or three months.
24 Q You were the shop steward?
25 A Yes. There was a foreman who did
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2 not have a union book at first.
3 Q Who was that?
4 A Peter.
5 Q Is that a book that I should
6 copy?
7 A I don't know. It is January 7th,
8 you see a lot of names that I have in here
9 from --
10 Q My suggestion is, let me copy it.
11 A Sure. Let me see if I have
12 Peter's last name in here.
13 Q Okay.
14 (Pause.)
15 A I went over this last night. I
16 should have wrote it down.
17 Q You'll know when you come back,
18 how compulsive I am on detail.
19 I want to hear about this job
20 here on Douglas Boulevard.
21 A That's where I first met Mr.
22 Gotti.
23 Q First of all, the foreman, Peter,
24 last name unknown, which we'll try to figure
25 out, was not a union member; is that correct?
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2 A No. When I first went there, he
3 is the foreman, I found out he is not a union
4 member. Within a week or two, I got him into
5 the union.
6 Q You got him in?
7 A He got himself in. I helped,
8 went to the hall with him, paid past fines;
9 and his book was reinstated.
10 Q Why did you do this for him?
11 A Number one, he was a foreman, if
12 he goes to work on the job, he is required to
13 have a union card.
14 Q No question about that.
15 A I'm trying the keep things
16 straight. For the first few months of the
17 job, there were only two or three people
18 there, a couple of regular guys, there really
19 wasn't too much of a problem.
20 Q Were you keeping shop steward
21 reports?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Were your shop stewards reports
24 accurate?
25 A Yes.
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2 Q True hours, no overtime, no cash;
3 is that correct?
4 A The overtime, I'm not sure if
5 some days we didn't put a couple of hours in.
6 There was nothing unrecorded. The shop
7 steward reports at this point were straight
8 up, as straight up as I could keep them. The
9 job was shut down three times during the
10 history of the job, three times it was
11 stopped and then started again. It would be
12 stopped for three or four days at a time.
13 Q Who was stopping it?
14 A The first issue that it was
15 stopped, was OSHA.
16 Q What was the OSHA problem?
17 A The collapse of one of the floors
18 upstairs. Again with the time frame, there
19 was the elevator issue, the elevator kept
20 breaking down and would not operate. Whether
21 that was before the collapse of the ceiling
22 or directly after it, I'm not sure.
23 There was also the issue of the
24 safety railing, that I called in to OSHA and
25 tried to get a report, I did get a report for
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2 that. I was issued the number and such, and
3 the little car they have, they sent a car out
4 with men in it.
5 Q OSHA?
6 A Yes. It has a specific name.
7 They did come and investigate that.
8 So the job was stopped and
9 started three times within a six-month
10 period. Each time it was started again. The
11 only way I found out was by some of the guys
12 on the job, friends of mine, calling me. I
13 was never called by Peter or Silo, saying the
14 job has been restarted up again, come on
15 down.
16 Q Was there a business agent
17 assigned to this job?
18 A Well, I should step back a little
19 bit. A month into the job, Joe Firth was
20 appointed the business agent on this job.
21 Q How do you know that? How did it
22 come to your attention?
23 A He was the person I was
24 reporting -- giving my paperwork to each
25 week. Within a month, I had asked Joe to
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2 come by, stop by, see the guys, see the job,
3 we are having problems with some safety
4 issues. Never came.
5 Another month goes by, I'm trying
6 to think of a specific issue I called for,
7 that was a specific safety issue where each
8 trade had their business agent come down,
9 labor agent came down, an electrician agent
10 came down. A large crowd at the front of the
11 building; still no Joe Firth.
12 The day after that happened, I
13 met Mr. Gotti for the first time.
14 Q When you say Mr. Gotti, who are
15 we talking about?
16 A Richard Gotti.
17 Q How did you come to meet Richard
18 Gotti?
19 A He was speaking with some of the
20 men on the floor.
21 Q In what capacity was Mr. Gotti
22 there?
23 A Supervisory capacity, as like --
24 at that point, he was supposed to be one of
25 the supers from the company, Silo.
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2 Q Was he a union member?
3 A Yes, he was a union member; but I
4 wasn't asked to put him on the books yet.
5 Q Just take me through your first
6 meeting. Was he introduced to you?
7 A Yes.
8 Q By whom?
9 A By Roger.
10 Q Who Roger?
11 A Again, Roger -- I should make
12 some notes.
13 Q Here, I'll give you a pad. You
14 can make notes as you wish.
15 A Roger was a gentleman who was the
16 supervisor, strictly a supervisor for Silo.
17 Q He worked for Silo?
18 A Yes. No union card, because he
19 never picked up tools or anything like that.
20 But he was the super on the job, over Pete.
21 Pete was a union carpenter, he works with his
22 tools, did most of the layout. Roger was the
23 supervisor. Roger introduced me to him,
24 and --
25 Q Just take me through it. I'm a
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1 Peter Okeefe 32
2 detail guy. He said, hey, Peter, this is
3 Richard?
4 A Pretty much. They were in the
5 paper at that time, Mr. Gotti's brother
6 passed away, very well-known. A lot of guys
7 working in the hallway making a big deal, it
8 was a celebrity coming to visit.
9 At that point, Mr. Gotti said, I
10 would like to speak to you. We went down the
11 hall, a couple of halls away, into a private
12 area.
13 Q He is speaking to you?
14 A Yes.
15 Q This is what he said, this is
16 what I said.
17 A He told me at that point that if
18 they had any problems on the job, any
19 problems concerning safety or anything, that
20 we shouldn't be bothering Joe Firth with it;
21 we shouldn't be bothering the union with it.
22 Q What was his point there?
23 A Only my impression: I got the
24 impression that, I had been calling Joe Firth
25 over and over to please come to the job.
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2 Instead of Joe Firth, I got this gentleman.
3 Q That was your impression?
4 A That was my impression.
5 Q Let me go back a little bit.
6 When Roger introduced Richard to you, what
7 did he say who this guy is, what's he doing
8 here?
9 A Just this is Richie, you knew who
10 he was.
11 Q Don't make -- in my business, we
12 never assume anything.
13 A Okay.
14 Q Did you know who he was?
15 A Sure. I had heard stories about
16 who the owner of Silo was.
17 Q You tell me; did someone tell you
18 that Richard was an owner of Silo?
19 A Yeah.
20 Q Do you remember who told you
21 that?
22 A A gentleman who had worked for
23 the company for a long time; Perry, for one.
24 Q Perry Mastrangelo?
25 A Yes.
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2 Q Who else?
3 A Errol Cummings, E-r-r-o-l
4 Cummings.
5 Q Who is Errol Cummings?
6 A Errol and I turned out to be
7 pretty good friends. Errol left them a
8 couple of years ago, he is working in
9 Atlanta, a carpenter. He didn't have much
10 stomach for the way they operated things.
11 Q When you were introduced by
12 Roger, to Richard, you knew or had in your
13 mind that this was an owner of Silo you were
14 talking to?
15 A Absolutely, yes.
16 Q So, Richard and you go privately,
17 no one else present besides you and Richard?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q And run the conversation through
20 again.
21 A Yes. Again with the safety
22 issues, if there was a problem, I think that
23 we shouldn't bother Joe Firth. They are just
24 safety issues; they will work themselves out.
25 Q Work themselves out; what does
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2 that mean?
3 A I don't know how it would work
4 itself out if you don't change, put an extra
5 guy on, put safety railings. If concrete has
6 cracks, someone is going to get killed.
7 Q Did you raise those issues with
8 respect, all due respect, to Richard: Who is
9 going to correct them? I don't have to call
10 Joe Firth, but will they be corrected?
11 A Truthfully, I was a little
12 intimidated.
13 Q Anything about his conduct or
14 speech that was intimidating?
15 A Not his speech. I was standing a
16 bit close, a finger.
17 Q Was he touching you with his
18 finger?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Was his voice raised?
21 A Yes.
22 Q He is touching you with his
23 finger.
24 A The conversation goes from there,
25 that he gave me a Social Security number that
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2 he wants his name on the sheets, he says he
3 is going to be there working. So I took down
4 the Social Security number.
5 Q What did you take it down in?
6 A A book similar to this.
7 Q Where is that book?
8 A Yeah, it's too bad my cars were
9 buried this morning. It's in one of my cars.
10 Q When you return to me, the next
11 time, without Katherine, so we can go a
12 little bit longer, you should bring whatever
13 you didn't bring today that would help me
14 document these things; okay?
15 A I know; I kept a running log.
16 Q That's what I'm asking you.
17 That's what I want to ensure. I want you,
18 before you see me again, which may not be --
19 I have to choose a time after we conclude
20 today, because I'm a busy little guy here,
21 and I have to schedule. But I want you to
22 make sure when you come to me the next time,
23 you've brought all the records that may be
24 helpful to me in understanding.
25 Take me through this
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2 conversation. He's telling you he may send
3 someone --
4 A Yes. If I send some guys here to
5 the job, you're to let them work.
6 Q What does that mean?
7 A At that point, I didn't know. At
8 this point, I wasn't sure he was going to
9 send some other guys to the job, and I should
10 let them work.
11 Q Let them work means what, off the
12 sheets or on the sheets?
13 A That's exactly -- that wasn't
14 clear at all.
15 Let me finish the conversation.
16 Q Sure.
17 A And then he brought up the fact
18 that if there's any problems, if anybody got
19 into any trouble on the job, that I was going
20 to be the one that was going to pay for it.
21 If there's any problem with these issues or
22 with the guys working here, you're going to
23 be the one that's going to have a problem
24 with it. I didn't sleep too good for the
25 next few nights.
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2 Q He is touching your chest?
3 A Once or twice. We didn't do the
4 whole conversation. He was very emphatic
5 with the point that if anything came up, if
6 anybody reported this, that I was going to be
7 the one to take the fall. Strangely enough,
8 that's how it worked out.
9 Q Take me through, step-by-step.
10 A My conversation with him wasn't
11 long, three, four, five minutes at the most.
12 When he was done talking to me, he -- he
13 walked around for a few minutes, and left.
14 Then I started a conversation with Roger;
15 Roger is like 400 pounds.
16 Q Is Roger a strong 400 pounds?
17 A No, almost crippled. He can't
18 get around. Roger pretty much said to me,
19 he's the man, he is the boss, he is in
20 charge; and if I was smart, just let him do
21 pretty much what he wants to do.
22 The week after that, we got two
23 or three guys on the job, they were supposed
24 to have been dispatched from the list, which
25 I think you probably know. Two or three guys
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1 Peter Okeefe 39
2 that were sent to the job; I'm trying to
3 think what job, I think they came from a job
4 they had in Queens.
5 Q Sent to the job; you're talking
6 about 112th and Frederick Douglas?
7 A Sorry. We are talking about 92nd
8 Street and Fifth. I'm sorry. That job, as I
9 said, the one on --
10 Q Where was the job that you had
11 the pleasure of meeting Mr. Gotti?
12 A 92nd Street.
13 Q You got me confused here. That's
14 your first job. Let's put this in context.
15 I thought you told me that the job at 95th,
16 we are going to find it, --
17 A I think I've got you very mixed
18 up. There was three jobs I was on for Silo.
19 Q Listen to me. On February 23,
20 2000, on the document which is right in front
21 of you, POK-4, you are dispatched as the shop
22 steward to 95th and Second Avenue; okay? So,
23 this encounter with Mr. Gotti occurred where?
24 At this site?
25 A No, it didn't. It occurred at
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2 96th Street and the Hudson River.
3 Q We have to find that job.
4 A Yes.
5 Q It didn't occur at Frederick
6 Douglas Boulevard?
7 A No.
8 Q Let me finish Frederick Douglas
9 Boulevard. Did anything happen at the
10 Frederick Douglas Boulevard job, that was
11 improper?
12 A Yes, the last month that we were
13 there, they had guys that were working on the
14 weekends.
15 Q "They" being Silo?
16 A Yes, Silo had sent people to work
17 there on the weekend, four or five weeks
18 straight. I did not put hem on the list; I
19 was asked by Perry not to put them on the
20 list.
21 Q Why didn't you put them on the
22 list?
23 A Mainly because I would be paid
24 for that day without going in.
25 Q Let's go. Turn to December 1st,
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2 2000 in what you're looking at. This is the
3 job at 112th and Frederick Douglas Boulevard?
4 A Correct.
5 Q This is the job which you told
6 me, in the last few weeks or months?
7 A At the end of the job, the first
8 few weeks of the job, as it was finishing up.
9 Q The foreman of that job was
10 Peter?
11 A Perry. Perry was the foreman for
12 two jobs for them that I was on.
13 Q He was on the job at 95th Street?
14 A Correct.
15 Q And he was on this job at 112th
16 Street?
17 A Correct.
18 Q I've got to be accurate here. I
19 encourage you to be slow and be precise,
20 because I don't want the record to be
21 imprecise.
22 Let me state it as I understood
23 you just told me. At 112th and Frederick
24 Douglas Boulevard, Perry Mastrangelo was your
25 foreman?
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2 A Yes.
3 Q He asked you in the last several
4 weeks of the job, not to keep track on your
5 shop steward report, of the overtime hours?
6 A Yes, for a couple of weekends
7 that they did.
8 Q On those weekends, how many
9 carpenters appeared to work, if you know?
10 A I'm guessing; six or eight.
11 Q For Silo?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And you were paid for that
14 service by being paid for the day by your not
15 being there; is that correct?
16 A Yes, that's correct.
17 Q If I go to the shop steward
18 reports for this job, at 112th and Frederick
19 Douglas Boulevard in the last several weeks,
20 I will see no Saturday work; however, there
21 would have been Saturday work that was
22 unreported?
23 A Yes. For at least two or three
24 weeks, yes.
25 Q At least two or three weeks; is
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2 that correct?
3 A Yes, it is.
4 Q Did you receive anything else,
5 besides being paid for those days?
6 A No.
7 Q How were you paid for those days,
8 if you weren't on the separate sheet, paid
9 cash?
10 A What they did was, they had three
11 or four guys that were there that were on the
12 job regularly, would work there on the
13 weekend.
14 Q How would they get paid for
15 weekend work?
16 A I don't recall if I put them down
17 on the sheets and they got time-and-a-half;
18 and then they had a few other guys I didn't
19 put down; I'm not sure.
20 Q When you come back, I would like
21 to put that together; and in the meantime,
22 I'm going to get the shop steward report.
23 In my business, Mr. Okeefe,
24 detail is important. I'm going to help you
25 by gathering things. But try to be as
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2 precise as you can be.
3 A I will be. The thing about it,
4 the farther you go back, 1997, 1998, I have a
5 pretty good memory. When I started the chemo
6 in 2000, it gets worse.
7 Q I'm not being harsh. I want to
8 make certain that you get it right, and I'll
9 get you the shop steward reports.
10 Was there anything else, listen
11 to the question, was there anything else that
12 happened here at this 112th and Frederick
13 Douglas Boulevard job with Silo, besides
14 these last several weeks, at least two or
15 three weeks in which people were not recorded
16 properly on Saturdays?
17 A No.
18 Q Everything else was okay on that
19 job?
20 A Yes, it was.
21 Q Let me find the next Silo job.
22 The next Silo job is the one that you had the
23 pleasure of meeting Mr. Gotti; is that
24 correct?
25 A Yes.
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2 Q Let's find it.
3 A We are being facetious when we
4 say "pleasure."
5 Q I don't want to assume anything.
6 The next Silo job I find for you,
7 that doesn't mean I have every job, I try to,
8 is December 13, 2001. The job is 329 West
9 96th Street.
10 A That's the next job you have that
11 I was dispatched as a shop steward?
12 Q Right. You may not have been
13 dispatched to the job you met Mr. Gotti at.
14 Where was the location --
15 A Where is this located? Yes, this
16 is it.
17 Q It is 393 West 96th Street?
18 A This is it, on the water. You
19 can't go any more, you step into the river.
20 Q This is it?
21 A Yes, where I met Mr. Gotti.
22 Q You got dispatched to this job,
23 323 West 96th Street, on December 13, 2001,
24 by the records of the District Council?
25 A Correct. I would like to step
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2 back a little bit. This is December, the
3 middle -- let's see. September -- beginning
4 of August.
5 Q 2001?
6 A Yes, 2001, I got a call from
7 Silo, I can't believe I can't remember his
8 name, from the boss at Silo, I know exactly
9 who he was, saying that he had a job coming
10 up on 96th Street, that he would like me to
11 be the shop steward on.
12 Q Okay.
13 A I wasn't sure how that could be
14 arranged. I pretty much said, you know, is
15 it possible to be arranged.
16 "It's luck. If you're on the top
17 of the list, that's luck. I think we can get
18 you in there." I started working for Silo
19 in August, I worked for them at No. 5 42nd
20 Street, that's the Times Square area, one,
21 two, three, four, five buildings, in the 42nd
22 Street area, large construction. I was in
23 No. 3. I worked there for him for a few
24 weeks. In other words, he was keeping me on
25 his payroll working for him in anticipation
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2 of me going to this job.
3 Q 96th Street, as a steward?
4 A Correct. Looking back on it is
5 how I'm figuring this out.
6 Q Okay.
7 A I had the terrible displeasure of
8 moving down to Tower 2 on 9/10; I was in
9 Tower 2 when it got hit.
10 Q Tower 2 of World Trade?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Was that a Silo job?
13 A Yes, it was, Vanderbilt was the
14 name of the contractor. Vanderbilt hired
15 Silo as a subcontractor. I was working on
16 that job. Of course after it was hit,
17 everybody was out for a week or so. At that
18 point, Silo decided they weren't going to pay
19 anybody for that week. They were also not
20 going to pay for any of the tools that were
21 missing.
22 I called up the same fellow who
23 called me, told me I was going to work down
24 there; and I told him I didn't think it was
25 fair. We had a little bit of an argument on
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2 the phone.
3 Q Who is that guy -- let me go
4 back. This is important. It is so important
5 that I need to get it right.
6 Before you went to this job at
7 96th Street, you were called by someone from
8 Silo who wanted you to work, and said that
9 you were going to be the shop steward at West
10 96th Street?
11 A Not that I was definitely going
12 to. "Let's see if we can get you in down
13 there."
14 Q Who was this person?
15 A I can get his name in about
16 thirty seconds, if I make a phone call.
17 MR. MACK: Let's take a three-
18 minute break.
19 (Short recess taken.)
20 MR. MACK: Let's go on the
21 record.
22 Q We've taken a short break. We
23 are going to work for another half-hour, and
24 then we are going to quit so I honor my
25 commitment to you.
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2 I would like you to be as precise
3 as possible on this telephone call. At least
4 as I understand, Silo was going to put you to
5 work until they could arrange for you to be
6 shop steward?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Who called you?
9 A Albert.
10 Q Who was Albert?
11 A Albert, as far as I know, is one
12 of the main owners of Silo. Again, the talk
13 among the guys is that Albert's father was a
14 mafioso guy that talked.
15 Q Was there any identity -- I have
16 been involved in organized crime prosecutions
17 for many years, but I'm very resistant to
18 rumor and what have you. So, my viewpoint
19 is, was Albert's last name available to you?
20 A At that time? Yes.
21 Q You're going to try to find his
22 name for me?
23 A Again, if I were to call, it
24 would take me a few minutes to get it. I'll
25 get that.
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2 Q Albert called you. What did he
3 say to you about where he wanted to put you
4 to work?
5 A The usual: Where are you, where
6 are you working now; I have a job on 96th
7 Street that I would like to get you in there
8 as the shop steward; maybe it can be done,
9 possibly it could be done.
10 I said, well, you know, I'm going
11 to be going to work at another job soon. I
12 got to get to work now. He basically put me
13 on work with Silo.
14 Q Where? In Times Square?
15 A Sometimes for a few days, World
16 Trade Center for a few days.
17 Q Where else?
18 A That was it.
19 Q I'll tell you, your benefit
20 records for the summer, let's say August
21 2001 -- I'm looking at the same record you
22 have -- basically that exhibit, just for the
23 record -- Shame on me; that exhibit is POK-2.
24 Take a look at POK-2, because
25 that's a key in to -- they are your benefit
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2 fund records and they reflect Silo
3 Construction reported 168 hours for you for
4 the month of August 2001. So that's a full
5 month.
6 A Yes, that's correct. That would
7 be between the Time Squares job and the World
8 Trade Center job. 168 hours. That's more
9 than a month's work.
10 Q So there's overtime in there. We
11 are going to get the shop steward reports.
12 But the point is, Albert put you to work,
13 what, as a company man?
14 A Yes.
15 Q At Times Square, World Trade
16 Center. What after World Trade?
17 A Nowhere. Right to, next time I
18 worked after World Trade Center, October,
19 November, December, for Silo, I didn't work
20 for them again until this job.
21 Q This job, being 96th Street?
22 A Yes, 96th Street.
23 Q I will tell you that your benefit
24 records, your benefit records reflect 91
25 hours for Silo in October, and 70 hours in
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2 November. So you may have been on the 96th
3 Street job working for Silo. You know, I can
4 get records from Silo eventually. I don't
5 want to do that to start.
6 A I never went there except as the
7 shop steward. This is, like, the first time
8 I went there. I was looking at it because I
9 expected to go there as a shop steward.
10 Q I just want to capture again the
11 September 11th. You were working at -- Silo
12 was a subcontractor to whom?
13 A Vanderbilt.
14 Q And Vanderbilt was working where?
15 A 5th floor.
16 Q Of which tower?
17 A Two.
18 Q What kind of work was happening
19 there?
20 A Carpentry work.
21 Q You were there as a mechanic?
22 A Yes.
23 Q How many carpenters were there?
24 A There was another shop steward
25 there. I would be guessing, eight, nine.
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2 Q Do you know who the shop steward
3 on that job was?
4 A No.
5 Q Was there a shop steward report?
6 A I never saw it. I was told there
7 was. I -- actually, the conversation I was
8 speaking about a few moments ago about asking
9 where are the guys' tools they lost, I was
10 saying where is the shop steward -- is there
11 someplace I can get a copy of the shop
12 steward report so we can get the guys' tools
13 replaced.
14 Q Who are you talking about,
15 Albert?
16 A Yes. Basically it was "contact
17 the shop steward that was there, see if he
18 has the report." I called Local 608. It was
19 a busy time for everybody.
20 Q Right.
21 A But they basically did nothing at
22 all to try and obtain some kind of
23 compensation for the tools for these guys.
24 Q Do you remember any of the names
25 of carpenters?
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2 A Oh, yeah.
3 Q Fellow carpenters who were there?
4 Look at what I'm going to mark
5 for my purposes, your book, which I'm going
6 to mark as POK-10. I have a copy of that,
7 but --
8 A Give me one minute.
9 (Pause.)
10 (Book maintained by Mr. Okeefe,
11 marked Exhibit POK-10.)
12 A I can put down Errol Cummings, I
13 know he was there.
14 Q Is Errol Cummings' Social
15 Security or UBC number available?
16 A Social Security is 109-76-3273.
17 Q Errol Cummings?
18 A Yes. Like I said, Errol is a
19 friend. I'm speaking to him on the phone
20 today or tomorrow.
21 Q I'm not going to take any action
22 until I finish with you. I want to get your
23 side of the facts before I reach out to
24 anyone or anything.
25 A Facts are facts now.
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2 Q I will tell you this, sometimes
3 people construe facts differently than
4 others, that's why it makes the jury system
5 as good as it is.
6 A Michael Betts.
7 Q What part of your book are you
8 looking at?
9 A No page number, really. February
10 25th of 2000.
11 Q Where are we looking?
12 A These are names that come into my
13 head. I know Mike was there, for sure, I
14 knew him well. Wilson Ortega, he was there.
15 Those are about the only ones I could say for
16 sure, but of course there's got to be a
17 record of dispatch for the shop steward.
18 Q Not if the job is unannounced.
19 It looks like it was carried, because you got
20 benefits for it.
21 A I'm still missing 400 hours'
22 worth of benefits. I thought I had the
23 records in here. It was put in the file as a
24 stamp shortage, never paid. I called every
25 week, next week, next week. They were just
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2 making excuses down the line, and then Silo
3 is gone; they are not in the union anymore.
4 Basically I lost 400 hours' worth of
5 benefits.
6 Q This wasn't for time that has
7 happened so far, right?
8 A Well, it is starting. It is at
9 the 96th Street job.
10 Q We are not quite at that job yet.
11 You're working for Silo. Tell me about this
12 dispatch to the 96th Street job; how did it
13 work out that in fact, if you know, that you
14 in fact did get dispatched as the shop
15 steward to the 96th Street job? How did that
16 come about?
17 A It is a coincidence, as far as
18 everybody else was concerned, it's a
19 coincidence. You and I and probably him
20 know, it wasn't a coincidence. This is the
21 third or fourth job that I have been
22 dispatched to, to Silo. This is the first
23 job when I met Mr. Gotti, and he made clear
24 what he wants.
25 Q Let's go back to the dispatch.
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2 A Sorry. Ordinary dispatch, they
3 call you the night before on the phone, job
4 number, address; simple dispatches.
5 Q This was not an immediate or
6 anything like that, anything unusual about
7 this dispatch to 96th Street?
8 A No.
9 Q How do you think Albert was able
10 to get you up to this 96th Street job?
11 A The management of 608, John
12 Greaney, I believe. I'm speculating here.
13 Q I want to hear the basis for your
14 speculation.
15 A Tells -- they need a man at the
16 World Trade Center, the man's qualifications
17 have to be this, in a certain order. Given
18 in a certain order. If you are anywhere
19 within the two or three hundred people on the
20 list, they will look for woodworking,
21 drywall, layout, blueprints, they will go
22 down the list, skip over each shop steward
23 until they find one with those qualifications
24 exactly. And that's how you dispatch that
25 one.
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2 Q Did anyone figure out, you know,
3 as far as you know, what skills were
4 necessary to describe, that would result in
5 your being dispatched as the shop steward?
6 A Oh, yeah, I was told exactly what
7 skills to call in and to put on the list, you
8 know, put -- how can I say it -- I had my
9 skills down already as blueprint, drywall. I
10 spoke to John Greaney.
11 Q Hold it a minute. I'm not
12 unfamiliar with this little dance. Get your
13 job referral history out. You have a copy of
14 that. We are going to look at it. That will
15 help me understand.
16 A Referral dispatch, I have it
17 right here.
18 Q Just bear with me. I'll tell you
19 what it is.
20 A Pete Scalia.
21 Q Right. POK-3. Shortly before
22 December 2001.
23 Now I'll show you how to read it.
24 A What page?
25 Q Page 9, in the upper right-hand
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2 corner, of POK-3.
3 A Got it.
4 Q Look at December 3rd.
5 A Got it. Add to list.
6 Q Go through this with me, you can
7 do this on your own. This is what I do, it
8 is part of my job. December 3, the time is
9 7:31, because it is California time. The
10 actual time is 10:31. So at 10:31 in the
11 morning on December 3, you, Peter Okeefe,
12 were added to the 157 list. This entry,
13 December 5th, 11:32, you're added to the 608
14 list. December 10 you add the skill of wood
15 framing?
16 A That's the thing.
17 Q Wood framing. You also add
18 protection, and shortly after that, 12/13,
19 2001, you are referred to your 96th Street
20 job.
21 A Right.
22 Q So the questions I'm asking you
23 are, why did you, on December 10, add the
24 skills of wood framing and protection?
25 A I was told to put these on.
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2 Q By whom?
3 A John Greaney.
4 Q Let's stop for a minute. We have
5 to go slowly. You had been told my Albert
6 back sometime, August, what have you, that he
7 wanted you to come to the 96th Street job.
8 A As a steward.
9 Q Had you had any conversations
10 with John Greaney on that subject?
11 A No, up until that point, no.
12 Q Tell me about these skill
13 additions here on December 10.
14 A When I spoke to Mr. Greaney --
15 Q Why did you speak to him? Were
16 you told to speak to him, or did he call you?
17 A I don't remember specifically. I
18 was in the office, I may have been dropping
19 off some papers, or maybe I just went there
20 to speak to him. I'm not sure.
21 Q So you're in 608?
22 A Right.
23 Q You're a 157 member?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Why are you in 608?
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2 A Probably dropping off missing
3 shop steward reports from my reports. I
4 don't remember. It's four, five years ago.
5 I was trying to follow up on Albert's idea as
6 to getting me in there as shop steward.
7 Q Were you told to see John Greaney
8 about this, or did John say, hey, Peter,
9 while you're here, I want to talk to you?
10 A Pretty much Albert said you
11 should try to talk to John about maybe
12 getting you in there as a shop steward.
13 Q Are you sure he said maybe, or
14 was it your idea to talk to John?
15 A Specifically, I don't remember.
16 Q The interim time, you're only
17 here another ten minutes, this is the type of
18 questioning I go through here, and we have
19 records to help us. The reason what you tell
20 me smacks of the truth, as they say in my
21 business, you told me about adding skills and
22 then we went to your sheet, and you did add
23 skills a few days beforehand.
24 A I told you when I got here, I'm
25 shooting straight.
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2 Q I want you to think carefully,
3 because this is important testimony, and we
4 need to get it right.
5 A A lot of memories.
6 Q We stirred up some of those
7 memories?
8 A Funny you should say that -- can
9 we stop for one second?
10 MR. MACK: Off the record.
11 (Discussion off the record.)
12 MR. MACK: Back on the record.
13 Q I'm a fact guy.
14 A Got you.
15 Q I need to know why you put the
16 two skills on the list.
17 A John Greaney said that was the
18 way to go with it, that was how to become a
19 shop steward down there.
20 Q You say down there, we are
21 talking about 96th Street?
22 A Yes. I have to remember that.
23 That's on the water. We'll call that one on
24 the water.
25 Q What I need you to tell me, if
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2 not now, the next time, is: How did this
3 conversation with John Greaney occur?
4 A I mean, I was certainly anxious
5 to be the shop steward there.
6 Q I can understand that. But I'm
7 not interested in supposition, I'm
8 interested -- did you seek out John, did John
9 seek you out, did you go to John and say,
10 John, I want to go to the job with Silo?
11 A I would say I wound up talking to
12 him at Albert's suggestion: Go down and
13 speak to John, if you're in the neighborhood
14 you should talk to John.
15 I don't hear from Albert; now,
16 all of a sudden, I am hearing from him.
17 Q Did you talk to John?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Where do you see John?
20 A In his office.
21 Q Who is present?
22 A I was just going to say me and
23 John, but I keep seeing a third person in the
24 office.
25 Q Think about it. And then my next
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2 question is: Who said what to whom?
3 A I pretty much asked John if there
4 was any way that I could become a shop
5 steward on that certain job.
6 Q Did you identify the 96th Street
7 job for Silo?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Did you say that?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did John know what you were
12 talking about?
13 A Yes. I said to him, what's going
14 on with the job down 96th Street, I was
15 hoping to get in there as a shop steward.
16 He didn't say a whole lot. He
17 said, yeah, we are getting there, we are
18 working on it. Then we had a conversation,
19 he said, you know, to add these skills to
20 your list.
21 Q He said add protection --
22 A Wrote me two little yellow slips
23 of paper.
24 Q Where are they?
25 A Good question. One was a phone
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2 number directly to the dispatch office,
3 confirming with a guy named Kenny.
4 Q To do what?
5 A To confirm that I had followed
6 the instruction on the other little yellow
7 sheet of paper, which was add woodworking,
8 add a couple of more skills in a certain
9 order.
10 Q I don't think the order means a
11 lot. What I have on your job referral, which
12 you will take home with you today, there's a
13 way to put this stuff together; added on
14 December 10, 2001, wood framing and
15 protection. Are you telling me that John
16 Greaney told you to put those skills on?
17 A Yes.
18 Q No question about that?
19 A No question about that.
20 Q Did he write you a note?
21 A He wrote it on this square sheet,
22 two little notes, I think I still have the
23 phone number. I'll tear the car apart.
24 Q I need you to look for those
25 pieces, it is very important to me that the
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2 paperwork be found.
3 A You have to understand one thing.
4 At the end of this job, when I finally
5 realized that I was going to be the one to
6 take the fall for everybody, I was going into
7 the court for the District Council, I had
8 requested help. I requested people to come
9 down and help me out with this. And
10 basically all the information I gave them,
11 all the evidence I gave them, might as well
12 have thrown it in the garbage.
13 I thought when I handed over the
14 petition, I thought I was going to get a call
15 saying forget why you have to come down, this
16 shows right here you were trying not to go
17 along with this guy, that you're calling Joe
18 Firth for help.
19 Q We didn't get there yet. You're
20 going to have the full opportunity to tell me
21 what happened here, but I need to go
22 step-by-step. Right now you haven't been
23 assigned there yet, because we are trying to
24 figure out how you got assigned.
25 You're telling me under oath,
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2 that John Greaney told you to add these
3 skills?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And he wrote you on the piece of
6 paper in his writing, wasn't your writing, it
7 was his writing, what skills to put down; is
8 that correct?
9 A Yes. Two pieces of paper, one
10 with skills on it, and then he wanted me to
11 be sure about it: Here's the phone number of
12 the dispatch office; call Kenny when you're
13 all done, it is on your list. I think I
14 still have the phone number.
15 Q Why don't you have the skills
16 piece of paper?
17 A I don't know.
18 Q You're going to look for that,
19 too, for me?
20 A I could say that maybe it was in
21 the briefcase that was just lost.
22 Q Don't say it unless it is true.
23 A No.
24 Q I will certainly want to get the
25 contents of the briefcase.
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2 Let's keep going. You put the
3 skills down that he told you to put on?
4 A Yes, called it in, put them on.
5 Q You did that. And then what
6 h