UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff,
90 CIV 5722
-against- (CSH)
DISTRICT COUNCIL OF NEW YORK CITY
AND VICINITY OF THE UNITED
BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND
JOINERS OF AMERICA, et.al.,
Defendants.
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Independent Investigator Deposition
March 15, 2005
10:35 o'clock a.m.
CONTINUED DEPOSITION of PETER OKEEFE,
taken by Donald Sobocienski on behalf of the
Independent Investigator, Walter Mack, Esq.,
pursuant to Notice and Adjournment, at the offices
of Doar, Rieck & Mack, Esqs., 217 Broadway, 7th
Floor, New York, New York 10007-2911, before
Stewart Nissenbaum, a Shorthand Reporter and
Notary Public of the State of New York.
TANKOOS REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
305 Madison Avenue 142 Willis Avenue
Suite 449 P.O. BOX 347
New York, N.Y. 10165 Mineola, N.Y. 11501
(212)349-9692 (516)741-5235
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A P P E A R A N C E S :
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3 DOAR RIECK & MACK
217 Broadway, 7th Floor
4 New York, New York 10007-2911
5 BY: DONALD SOBOCIENSKI, Chief Investigator
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2 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: On the record.
3 Mr. Okeefe, my name is Don
4 Sobocienski and I work with Walter Mack;
5 and because Walter cannot be present
6 today, he has asked that I continue your
7 deposition which was originally taken on
8 February 25th, 2005.
9 MR. OKEEFE: Correct.
10 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: I'm going to
11 ask that you be sworn in again, and then
12 we'll begin with questioning. We may go
13 over some of the same subject matter
14 that Mr. Mack asked you about, as I said
15 to you, or, perhaps you've had some
16 time, because there was a little bit of
17 confusion with regard to some of the
18 Silo jobs, and what happened on which
19 job.
20 P E T E R O K E E F E , the witness
21 herein, being first duly sworn by Stewart
22 Nissenbaum, a Notary Public of the State of
23 New York, was examined and testified further
24 as follows:
25 EXAMINATION BY
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2 MR. SOBOCIENSKI:
3 Q Mr. Okeefe, I would ask you to
4 turn to the exhibit which is marked POK-4.
5 As you go through that, go to Page 6, which
6 is marked in the upper right-hand corner, and
7 you'll see that that is an out-of-work list
8 dispatch record for your dispatch as a shop
9 steward to a Silo Construction job at 95th
10 and Second Avenue.
11 A Correct.
12 Q The last time that you were here,
13 you and Mr. Mack went over, somewhat, what
14 had occurred on that job, and how you became
15 steward on that job.
16 Could you just refresh us again
17 as to how you became the steward for that
18 particular job? And is, in fact, that the
19 first time you ever worked for Silo?
20 A Yes, it was the very first time.
21 I was on the list, waiting, and got a call.
22 Q What type of job was that at 95th
23 and Second?
24 A I think it was a ten-story, like
25 an apartment building, right on the corner.
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2 Q Was it from the ground up?
3 A No. When I got there, the shell
4 was up.
5 Q And your foreman on that job was
6 a gentleman named?
7 A Perry Mastrangelo.
8 Q Now, as I look at, again, at the
9 next page of POK-4, I see that you were
10 dispatched on April 21st, 2000, to a SonJon
11 job?
12 A Correct.
13 Q When I look at your benefit
14 records, which are POK-2, you will see that
15 on the far left column, that's No. 17, which
16 is the period 4/23, 2000, you had 41 hours
17 from Silo. I'm going the assume that when
18 you were dispatched to SonJon, you were
19 finished with that job with Silo?
20 A I would think I would have to be.
21 Q I would think so, too.
22 Let's move to the next Silo job;
23 all right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Which is going to be Page 16 in
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2 POK-4. This is where things got at least a
3 bit confusing, in my estimation, having read
4 the transcript of your prior testimony.
5 On this particular job, did you
6 have any forewarning that this job was going
7 to come up, or was this a random choice for
8 you to be steward?
9 A No, this was a random choice.
10 Q This was the luck of the draw?
11 A Right. Right.
12 Q What becomes of interest, while
13 you're on -- How long did this job last?
14 A I think about four or five
15 months. I would have to look at the record
16 to be sure.
17 Q The records are all in front of
18 us, so we are going -- this is where it
19 becomes confusing when we compare your
20 benefit records to your dispatch history.
21 If I turn to your benefit
22 records, and you'll see the way this document
23 runs, is, as you see, the chronological
24 dates, each prior page continues into the
25 future. Okay?
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2 A Right.
3 Q So what happens, or what I see on
4 these records, is that you are dispatched on
5 December 1st to begin December 4th for Silo
6 Construction at 112th Street and Frederick
7 Douglas Boulevard?
8 A Right.
9 Q As you look at your benefit
10 records, you will see that you continue to
11 receive continuous, continuous benefits from
12 Silo, continuing on to October 5 of 2002, yet
13 you are dispatched to several jobs in the
14 interim.
15 What I want to go through is, I
16 just want to look at this step-by-step. I
17 know these aren't pertaining to Silo, but I
18 want to get a sense of what was going on with
19 you in this period; all right?
20 You reported to the job at 112th
21 and Frederick Douglas Boulevard, and you put
22 your name back on the out-of-work list, and
23 you were dispatched August 2, 2001, the
24 next --
25 A What page?
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2 Q That page. -- to Rivco?
3 A Right.
4 Q Each of these jobs, we don't see
5 any benefit histories.
6 A From Rivco?
7 Q From Rivco, for this particular
8 job, Planet Hollywood. Do you recall the
9 job?
10 A Planet Hollywood?
11 Q That's what it says. Planet
12 Hollywood Hotel, 1567 Broadway.
13 I guess what I'm trying to
14 establish here, is: After your dispatch to
15 the Frederick Douglas Boulevard job, did you
16 continue to work for Silo at other locations?
17 A Not until the next job I was
18 dispatched to them.
19 Q Your prior testimony was, you
20 worked at World Trade Center?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And you were at Times Square?
23 A Yes.
24 Q What I'm asking, I see a series
25 of dispatches in between the time you were
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2 dispatched to Silo at the 112th Street and
3 Frederick Douglas Boulevard job, and what you
4 call the water job on 96th Street. It seems
5 as though through that entire period, you're
6 receiving benefits from Silo, but you're on
7 and off the out-of-work list, being
8 dispatched to other contractors for which you
9 received no benefits. That's why I'm a
10 little bit confused.
11 A I'm going to be a little bit
12 confused, because I'm going through that
13 right now, with the Disability Fund.
14 Q I see the August 2, 2001 dispatch
15 to Rivco Construction at Planet Hollywood,
16 and yet I don't see, as I look at your
17 benefit history for that period --
18 A Rivco paying anything in?
19 Q Right. Do you have any
20 recollection of working for Rivco at that
21 jobsite?
22 A Yes, I remember the job. I
23 worked a very short period of time there;
24 maybe three weeks.
25 Q Here's what your record show.
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2 You are on the out-of-work list records,
3 that's another document which is right here.
4 You're free to turn to that as well, which is
5 POK-3. That shows me that on 8/2 --
6 A Yes.
7 Q -- in that dispatch right there,
8 you're referred, the referral is that page
9 there. You're looking at that on the
10 out-of-work list history. It means that you
11 were referred to that job, and this is your
12 record, which corresponds to that.
13 A Got you.
14 Q You will see the next entry on
15 your work history here is 8/9, where your
16 temporary assignment is completed, and you're
17 back on the out-of-work list. That's a total
18 of seven calendar days, not several weeks,
19 yet there's no benefits paid for that period
20 of time. Do you remember working for Rivco?
21 A I worked for them. Got paid.
22 Q As we go on, you'll see you have
23 other dispatches to Rivco, to a different
24 site, and you got benefits for 49 hours.
25 This may be a little confusing to you, in
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2 terms of placing which Rivco job is what.
3 A Two dispatched to Rivco?
4 Q Let's proceed.
5 A Go ahead.
6 Q Let's go to the next dispatch,
7 flip the page, which is September 10, 2001,
8 that's Glenn Partition?
9 A Three World Financial Center.
10 Q Correct. Do you remember working
11 for them?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Because you're back on the
14 out-of-work list three days later?
15 A Right.
16 Q Temporary assignment completed,
17 and you receive no benefits. You are
18 receiving benefits from Silo.
19 You see where I'm going?
20 A No.
21 Q What I'm asking is, were you
22 working for Silo at various locations?
23 A Two jobs at the same time --
24 Q No. Subsequent to being
25 dispatched to the Frederick Douglas Boulevard
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2 job, did they place you on other jobs --
3 A No.
4 Q -- and pay your benefits?
5 A No. The only time I worked for
6 Silo at all, was a couple of times at Times
7 Square, and two days at the World Trade
8 Center, besides being their shop steward.
9 Q What befuzzled me -- take some
10 time to look at your benefit history, you
11 have continuous benefits during this period
12 of time from Silo.
13 A I only see the one payment for
14 12/10.
15 Q I'm going to walk over here, even
16 though I'm having some difficulty. I'm
17 coming over to you, because it is easier for
18 Stu.
19 I'm going to show you what I
20 mean. We talked about your dispatch being
21 12/1 of 2000, for the 112th Street job. Here
22 are benefits that continue, every week, these
23 are benefits being contributed on your behalf
24 by Silo on these dates.
25 A January '01.
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2 Q They are going to continue on
3 beyond that. Nearly every month, or the end
4 of every month, we are seeing contributions
5 of significant hours by Silo through the
6 entire year 2001.
7 Here are the 49 hours I told you
8 about Rivco. Apart from that, and that's 21,
9 Rivco, and a couple of others from Rivco.
10 But the majority of your benefits are coming
11 in from Silo, up and through your dispatch to
12 the water job on 96th Street.
13 So what I'm basically trying to
14 get to here, is: Were you on the out-of-work
15 list, being dispatched to various contractors
16 of which you received no benefits, even
17 though you were dispatched?
18 A Right.
19 Q Were you working for Silo at the
20 time, and unable to take those dispatches?
21 A No.
22 Q I'm at a loss. You have to
23 explain to me what those records mean.
24 A I have no idea. This --
25 Q Just take three or four minutes,
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2 and just read through those. We'll take a
3 moment and see if it makes any sense to you,
4 why Silo is contributing benefits for you
5 continuously for the whole year, even though
6 that job on 112th Street is -- what you
7 indicate is, a couple of months long, and the
8 other job, which is the water job, didn't
9 occur until 2002.
10 So in looking at the record and
11 reading your previous testimony about Times
12 Square and Two World Trade Center, I was
13 trying to piece that together and determine
14 whether or not you had constant employment
15 with Silo during those years.
16 A No; I mean, like the only time I
17 worked for Silo was the time I was dispatched
18 to them as a steward at 92nd and Second,
19 112th Street, 96th Street water job, and,
20 like, a couple of days between Times Square
21 and a couple of days at the World Trade
22 Center.
23 Q That's the benefit histories.
24 You can see they are continuous, Silo is
25 continuous, as though you were a constant
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2 employees of theirs. And you'll see if we go
3 through and continue with your dispatches
4 here, you know, following the Glenn Partition
5 dispatch, coincidentally you receive another
6 Glenn Partition dispatch on September 14, yet
7 no benefit contributions from Glenn.
8 A Two dispatches to Glenn. That, I
9 don't recall. That, I don't recall at all.
10 Q Then after that, on September 17,
11 the next page, in 2001, you got a dispatch to
12 Rivco?
13 A Right.
14 Q Which could in fact have occurred
15 at 1567 Broadway, because you did receive
16 benefit contributions from Rivco at this time
17 period, or subsequent to this dispatch.
18 A Right.
19 Q 49 hours and 21 hours.
20 A I'm at a loss.
21 Q 9/30 of '01, 2001, you have
22 contributions of 49 hours, which could
23 coincide with the dispatch to 1567 Broadway
24 for Rivco. I can assume that's what those
25 benefits are for.
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2 A I mean, I was in Tower 2 when it
3 was hit, that was the second day I was with
4 Silo on that job. And I spent maybe a total
5 of three or four days before that on the
6 Times Square job; that's three or four days.
7 Q You know, there's a gap that
8 exists between --
9 A 232 hours, around January,
10 February, March, April, May, June --
11 Q Here's the situation. Let me
12 summarize it again. On December 1st, 2000,
13 you were dispatched, what you believe to be a
14 random dispatch, to Silo for the second time,
15 to 112th and Frederick Douglas Boulevard.
16 A Right.
17 Q From your recollection, that job
18 lasted for several months?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Only several months. You're not
21 dispatched again to Silo until what we
22 describe as the water job at 323 96th Street,
23 in December 2001; about a year, okay?
24 A Okay.
25 Q During that period of time, you
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2 were dispatched to several other contractors?
3 A Right.
4 Q Which your dispatch history would
5 indicate were of limited duration, because
6 you received no benefits from any of those
7 contractors, with the exception of Rivco.
8 And yet during that full year, you received
9 almost continuous benefits from Silo. And
10 where I'm unclear is, how that could be.
11 A Can't be. It can't be.
12 Somebody's records are wrong somewhere.
13 Q It is your testimony that after
14 the three or four months, several months,
15 I'll say three or four months at the 112th
16 Street and Frederick Douglas Boulevard job,
17 you did not work for Silo except for a few
18 days at the World Trade Center --
19 A Exactly.
20 Q -- and a few days at Times
21 Square, until your dispatch at 96th Street?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Even though the record, the
24 benefit record, would indicate differently?
25 A Absolutely. And I got all my
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2 W-2s at home. I'll take a look at it when I
3 get home.
4 Q That would be valuable, the W-2s.
5 A I'm racking my brains. I spent
6 time on the 112th Street job, I don't think
7 it was three or four months.
8 Q Could not be any longer than
9 that?
10 A I got to look. I got to look,
11 but I don't think so. It is four years ago,
12 four, five years ago; I would have to look.
13 But I don't think so. There's something
14 screwy somewhere.
15 Q There's something that obviously
16 makes no sense to me; and you can offer no
17 explanation at this time as to why the record
18 shows something different than your
19 recollection?
20 A It doesn't have nothing to do
21 with the stamp shortage report.
22 Q Let's go back on what was
23 described as how you came to be the shop
24 steward on December 13, 2001, for Silo, at
25 the 96th Street job.
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2 A What page?
3 Q 24 is the dispatch. We are going
4 to discuss your recollection of what happened
5 that enabled you to get to that jobsite. I
6 know you've gone over this with Walter; I
7 just want to go over it again.
8 You indicated in your prior
9 testimony that you received a call from one
10 of the owners of Silo. And that gentleman
11 was?
12 A Albert Brozac.
13 Q Can you spell the name?
14 A B-r-o-z-a-c.
15 Q How did you know Mr. Brozac?
16 A He was there with Silo, and I had
17 known him from the previous job.
18 Q The 112th Street job?
19 A Right.
20 Q Did you know him also on the 95th
21 and Second job?
22 A Yes. That was right -- that was
23 about three months after 9/11 that that job
24 started.
25 Q You tell me. I don't know.
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2 Think about it for a moment before you
3 answer.
4 A The dispatch -- yeah, right after
5 9/11.
6 Q Let's put it this way: Did you
7 receive the call from Albert prior to you
8 being -- working for Silo at Times Square and
9 the World Trade Center?
10 A Yes.
11 Q But after you had already left
12 the 112th Street job?
13 A Yes.
14 Q You left the 112th Street job,
15 the job was over --
16 A Yeah, we kept in touch; and he
17 kept saying he has a job maybe I can be the
18 shop steward on.
19 Q That's his conversations with
20 you?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Telephone conversation?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Do you remember being called by
25 him on your phone --
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2 A Yes.
3 Q -- and that subject matter being
4 discussed?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Now, I'm going to jump back for
7 a moment to the 112th Street and Frederick
8 Douglas Boulevard job. Was there anything
9 that occurred on that job that was in
10 violation of the Collective Bargaining
11 Agreement?
12 A No. No. The last few weeks on
13 that job, I think they had some guys working
14 on Saturday that weren't supposed to be.
15 Q What does that mean?
16 A They had people who were regular
17 carpenters on the job, with union cards,
18 coming in on Saturday or Sunday and working,
19 and not reporting it to me or putting it down
20 on the sheet.
21 Q If it wasn't on the sheet, the
22 only person who could put it on the sheet
23 would be you?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Were you aware that they were
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2 coming, at the time they were coming in?
3 A No.
4 Q You were told after?
5 A Yes. Not much after; but yes.
6 Q You would come in on a Monday and
7 find out that work had been performed on a
8 Saturday?
9 A That's correct, or Sunday.
10 Q Or Sunday. What was your
11 reaction when you found that out?
12 A The foreman on the job was Perry
13 Mastrangelo. He would kind of wink at it,
14 more or less; and I pretty much winked back,
15 and said it can't happen, it is not supposed
16 to be done this way. And Perry would say,
17 well, it won't happen again.
18 Q In fact, it did happen again?
19 A A couple of times. Yeah.
20 Q Up until the end of the job?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And in your previous testimony,
23 you indicated almost at the conclusion of
24 that testimony, that this job may have
25 occurred at a period of time when you first
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2 started your chemo treatments?
3 A Yes, chemo treatment started
4 early 2001, December 2000, and, yeah, we took
5 attempts at being successful with the chemo
6 treatment at that time; and it was a very
7 rough time.
8 Q I'm sure it was. During that
9 period of time, while you were on the
10 Frederick Douglas Boulevard job, did you have
11 any discussions with Perry about your being
12 absent from the job for days, which was
13 related to your chemo treatments?
14 A Yes.
15 Q How did he respond to that? In
16 other words, did he indicate to you that that
17 would be okay, we are going to pay you for
18 the days you're not there?
19 A Yeah, yeah; I mean, I wouldn't
20 take an entire day off, if I came in late or
21 left early, Perry was lenient.
22 Q Your records reflect full
23 days, -- if you left two hours early, would
24 it still reflect seven?
25 A Correct.
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2 Q Did Perry ever approach you, or
3 anyone from Silo, indicating that, you know,
4 in return for them paying you days or hours
5 when you weren't present, that they would ask
6 for something in return?
7 A No.
8 Q So even though at the end of that
9 job, as you stated, that workers had worked
10 on the weekends unbeknownst to you, and were
11 not placed on your shop steward reports, that
12 was never an arrangement that was previously
13 discussed?
14 A No. No.
15 Q Was there any other thing that
16 occurred on that job that was in violation of
17 the Collective Bargaining Agreement?
18 A No.
19 Q During that three- or four-month
20 period -- and I know it is difficult to go
21 back and recall this, and we'll try to get
22 the steward reports, but they are not going
23 to show hours that you weren't present --
24 would you estimate how much you missed as a
25 result of your treatments? In a 35-hour
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2 week, were you missing --
3 A Maybe four, five hours.
4 Q Of the 35?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And they would be spread over a
7 day or two days?
8 A A couple of days, yeah.
9 Q So do you recall where you worked
10 following the end of the Frederick Douglas
11 Boulevard job?
12 A No, I would have to sit down with
13 my W-2s and go over them; but I know it
14 wasn't for Silo. It was before we started
15 the job on 96th Street and the water, I
16 worked a couple of weeks for them on other
17 jobs. Looking back on it, it was obviously
18 an attempt to keep me available when the time
19 came I would go to the water job.
20 Q Your recollection is, that from
21 the conclusion of the Frederick Douglas
22 Boulevard job, that you were working for
23 other contractors and you received a call
24 from Albert --
25 A Right.
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2 Q -- indicating that he may want
3 you to become the steward?
4 A Got a job coming up, has a job
5 coming up that he would like me to be the
6 steward on.
7 Q Did he indicate why he would like
8 you to be the steward?
9 A Not really. I mean, to say
10 anything specifically, no.
11 Q Was it your sense that perhaps,
12 you know, he thought that he could --
13 A Get away with things because I
14 was out sick? Yes, looking back; oh, yeah.
15 Q Looking back on it, what makes
16 you believe that today, that that's --
17 A Once I got into the job, I mean,
18 like I was telling you earlier, they had
19 stopped that job three or four times,
20 sometimes for safety issues, sometimes for
21 elevator; I would not be notified that the
22 job was started up again till maybe a month
23 later. And yet in between that time, I would
24 speak to some of the carpenters that I knew
25 on the job, good friends of mine; they said,
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2 oh, no, we have been back here for two or
3 three weeks. He was stretching the envelope
4 quite a bit; and as the job went on, I found
5 that out more and more.
6 Q What you're saying, as best I
7 understand it, you are saying that during the
8 job on 96th Street, there were periods of
9 time, at least to your knowledge, the job was
10 going to be shut down, and you were awaiting
11 notice to come back?
12 A Right.
13 Q You didn't get that notice?
14 A No.
15 Q You would get that notice
16 informally?
17 A Exactly; exactly.
18 Q From workers who you knew who
19 were working on the site?
20 A Yes, at the very start of a job,
21 I keep thinking December, for almost two or
22 three months, the job started out with the
23 foreman, who was placed there by Albert,
24 didn't have a union card.
25 Q That was?
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2 A Pete Scalia. He was actually
3 semi-banned from the union, I think he was
4 blackballed, was not to be issued a union
5 card until certain other issues were cleared
6 up.
7 Q Explain to me your knowledge of
8 that situation.
9 A I think Pete was foreman on
10 another job, and he had problems with the
11 unions on the other job, a year or so
12 earlier, and they took his book away.
13 Q While he was working for Silo?
14 A No, he wasn't working for Silo.
15 Q How did you come to know this?
16 A The very first day I was on the
17 job, I was introduced to the foreman. I
18 said, let me see the card; he had no card.
19 Q At that point, you knew that he
20 doesn't have a card. How did you come to
21 learn he had a prior problem?
22 A Just talking with him.
23 Q It was your conversation with
24 Mr. Scalia that led you to believe that he
25 had a previous problem with the union?
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2 A He straightened it out within a
3 few days, and got a union card.
4 Q During the time before he
5 straightened it out, was he a working
6 foreman, did he have his tools on?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Was it recorded on your shop
9 steward reports?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Let me jump back for a moment.
12 After the 112th Street, Frederick Douglas
13 Boulevard job, following that job, Albert
14 calls you and indicates that he wishes to
15 have you on an upcoming job, but in the
16 interim, he sends you to other jobsites to
17 work?
18 A Yes. As I said, it couldn't have
19 been more than a week, two weeks, total. He
20 kept saying he was waiting to get the okay
21 for the 96th Street water job. I said, you
22 know, I've got to work for a living. He
23 said, well, go here, go there; a couple of
24 days here, a couple there.
25 Q During those periods of time,
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2 were you reporting, shaping those jobs, or
3 were you still on the list while doing that?
4 A Still on the list.
5 Q On the list, but working for
6 Silo?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And two jobs that you recall are
9 Times Square --
10 A Correct.
11 Q -- and the World Trade Center,
12 Tower 2?
13 A Right. 85th Floor. Vanderbilt
14 was the contractor, I guess.
15 Q When did it -- explain to me
16 again, the circumstances which led up to the
17 dispatch on December 13, 2001.
18 A Albert called me, told me the job
19 was opening up; go down and speak to John
20 Greaney.
21 Q Was this in December, November;
22 was it shortly before the job was opening up?
23 A I would be taking a guess if I
24 said yes. It didn't take but, like, two or
25 three days after I spoke to him, to do it.
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2 Q Albert called you up and said
3 what?
4 A Go down and speak with John
5 Greaney, and see if he'll put you on this job
6 as a shop steward.
7 Q That's a telephone conversation?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Between you and Albert?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did you know John Greaney at that
12 time?
13 A Vaguely; extremely vaguely. I'm
14 a member of 157; he is the President of 608.
15 I was a little -- again, looking back, it is
16 crystal clear. But I went down there, talked
17 to him, I said, you know, a friend of mine,
18 Perry, is going to be the foreman -- it
19 turned out he wasn't the foreman -- he is
20 going to be the foreman, I would like to be a
21 shop steward on that job. He gave me some
22 additional -- what do you call them, when you
23 list a carpenter --
24 Q Skills?
25 A Skills; additional skills; wrote
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2 them on a slip of paper, "you have to call in
3 and put these skills on your sheet." I
4 called it in.
5 He also gave me another slip of
6 paper with the phone number of the dispatch
7 office itself, and a gentleman named Kenny.
8 Q And both of those pieces of
9 paper, although you've searched to the best
10 of your ability, you can't locate?
11 A The one that had the skills
12 written on it is gone. The other one, I
13 still have hopes for, in the attic or garage.
14 Q If you can locate either or both,
15 that would be advantageous to us.
16 You arrived at the offices of
17 Local 608?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And you don't know John Greaney,
20 so you go to the woman, the receptionist, and
21 say, I would like to speak with Mr. Greaney?
22 A I don't recall exactly, but I
23 would think so. Okeefe is here to see John.
24 Q Was Mr. Greeney immediately
25 receptive to what your needs were?
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2 A Yes, he was.
3 Q Why do you say that?
4 A It is hindsight. Looking back,
5 it becomes crystal clear. At the time, it
6 wasn't crystal clear. Boom, boom, boom; one,
7 two, three. Looking back on it, it was a
8 little ridiculous.
9 Q So were you and he sitting at his
10 desk while this conversation is occurring?
11 A Yes, he was.
12 Q He in fact writes on a yellow
13 slip of paper, --
14 A Yes.
15 Q -- two skills that you should add
16 to your skill set?
17 A To be specific, it was a few, a
18 couple, in a specific given order. Wood
19 framing, wood safety construction, and
20 something else, in a given order, that I was
21 to put on my skills sheet.
22 Q When Mr. Greaney gave you this
23 slip of paper, did you know, did he explain
24 to you what this was about, or were you
25 familiar with adding these types of skills?
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2 A I knew how to add skills to it.
3 Exactly why he was adding them, I figured
4 that out later.
5 Q If you know, why did he give you
6 the name of a specific person?
7 A Well, I got the idea that I was
8 to make sure that it had gone, that the
9 skills had reached the dispatch. If you call
10 in the regular dispatch office, the 3300
11 number, and say you want to add skills to
12 your thing, you're not sure if they go
13 through right away. I got the impression
14 that they had to make sure that those skills
15 had gone through right away.
16 Q So you made the phone call to
17 Kenny?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Did you identify who you were?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And you indicated that you wanted
22 to add specific skills to your skills set?
23 A Correct.
24 Q Do you recall Kenny, anything out
25 of the ordinary in your conversation with
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2 Kenny; anything out of the ordinary?
3 A It sounded like he had an Indian
4 or Pakistani accent. He also asked how I got
5 the number.
6 Q How you got a number to him?
7 A I got the impression that it was
8 unusual to be calling him directly in the
9 dispatch office to confirm these things.
10 Q Did you explain to Kenny how you
11 got his number?
12 A Yes.
13 Q To the best of your recollection,
14 what did you tell Kenny?
15 A Specifically, specifically, I
16 couldn't tell you. I just confirmed that
17 they had received my changes.
18 Q Did you tell Kenny that John
19 Greaney had given the number?
20 A I said John gave me the number.
21 Again, it is a long time back. I'm really
22 guessing. I said John gave me the number,
23 told me to call.
24 Q Did he know who John was?
25 A Yes. He didn't have a lot to
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2 say.
3 Q Okay.
4 You add the skills, and within a
5 couple of days, three days, you are
6 dispatched with at least two of the skills
7 that you added on December 10, which are wood
8 framing and protection; and they become at
9 least part of the skill set requested for the
10 job at 96th Street.
11 You reported to the job?
12 A Yes.
13 Q You had not been working at 96th
14 Street prior to you reporting as shop steward
15 to that job?
16 A No. I had gone by and looked at
17 it a couple of times.
18 Q You had not worked until you
19 arrived as the steward?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What happens on the first day
22 that you arrived on that jobsite?
23 A Nothing out of the ordinary. I
24 introduced myself to the contractor and the
25 other shop steward on the job.
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2 Q How many carpenters are there,
3 working for Silo?
4 A Only two. One of them was Pete
5 Scalia. The first day was Pete, and then
6 within a couple of days, we got another
7 couple of guys.
8 Q Did Pete Scalia, or anyone else,
9 have any communications with you about trying
10 to convince you or ask you to do things that
11 would be in violation of the Collective
12 Bargaining Agreement?
13 A Not immediately, no.
14 Q When you say not immediately,
15 when, in fact, did those conversations
16 happen?
17 A Within two months, Albert would
18 come by and visit; he asked a couple of times
19 if he could send some guys over to the job
20 that didn't have union books. I said no. He
21 kind of hinted at, you know, the fact that I
22 could get paid for full weeks and things like
23 that, if I would be more cooperative with
24 him, having guys on the weekends and such.
25 Q You say get paid for full weeks.
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2 During your work as the shop steward on this
3 96th Street job, were there times that you
4 were out for hours or days because of your
5 treatments?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Up until this conversation, were
8 you being paid full days' wages, even though
9 you were not there for the full day?
10 A Yes. That wouldn't be very
11 unusual in itself, that it was just me and
12 Pete Scalia there.
13 Q What do you mean?
14 A Under normal situations, you
15 wouldn't see a foreman working with one other
16 guy, docking him for an hour here or there.
17 Q Was that the extent of it, Mr.
18 Okeefe, an hour here, an hour there?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Did you miss full days?
21 A Not for a while; but I did miss
22 full days.
23 Q Was that after your conversation
24 with Albert, or before?
25 A I don't recall, to be specific, I
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2 couldn't tell you.
3 Q You said in your conversation
4 with Albert, that he indicated that you could
5 get paid for full weeks?
6 A Correct.
7 Q Indicating that you were not
8 putting in full weeks?
9 A Right.
10 Q So prior to that conversation,
11 were you in fact being paid for less than a
12 35-hour week, because of your absences?
13 A I would have to look to be
14 certain; I don't recall.
15 Q Is it your sense, based on a
16 conversation?
17 A Yes, yes.
18 Q You said no to what Albert's
19 requests were?
20 A Yes, I did. I told him I didn't
21 think that was a very good idea.
22 Q Where did it go from there?
23 A Let's see. As time went on, like
24 I was saying earlier, the job would be shut
25 down occasionally.
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2 Q The reasons for it being shut
3 down, other than the OSHA violation which you
4 reported, were what?
5 A In general, there was a lot of
6 safety violations; holes in the ground that
7 weren't being covered, cables, around the
8 time, safety cable not being put up.
9 Eventually they had to pay for
10 time and material for carpenters to go up and
11 do that. I got a feeling they weren't happy
12 for me reporting on that or insisting it be
13 done.
14 An actual roof collapsed, slab
15 busted, two people sent to the hospital. The
16 elevator filling up with water,
17 short-circuited. Electrical problems in the
18 elevator with the water. Very numerous
19 things.
20 Q During these shutdowns, and the
21 periods of time when the job is shut down and
22 you're not there on the job as the shop
23 steward, you believe that work had been
24 conducted?
25 A Absolutely.
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2 Q While you weren't present?
3 A Absolutely. I spoke with
4 Mr. Mack about this last week. I wanted to
5 make it clear, I was certainly not, as the
6 job went on near the end, I was not an
7 innocent babe in the woods. I was calling
8 for help; I wasn't getting it. I could have
9 gone further, calling for help, but I didn't.
10 Q We'll get to that.
11 During the period of time when
12 the job is being shut down, are you yourself
13 doing anything with shop steward reports, not
14 putting men on the sheets?
15 A No.
16 Q Not reporting hours?
17 A No.
18 Q Everything is on the up-and-up,
19 and accurate, in terms of your submissions of
20 the shop steward reports?
21 A Yes; up to that point, yes.
22 Q Explain to me when you have your
23 first encounter with Mr. Gotti, and the
24 circumstances leading up to that encounter.
25 A After speaking to Albert a couple
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2 of times when the job resumed, it would be,
3 as I said, shut down; a week later it would
4 be resumed. You find guys on the job, I had
5 no idea who they were, they had no union
6 card, and they would miraculously disappear
7 the next day. Obviously they had worked
8 there.
9 Q Let's take that for a moment.
10 You arrive on the job; for whatever reasons,
11 you're being informed that the job started
12 up. Lo and behold, Peter Okeefe shows up on
13 the job, and he notices gentlemen working on
14 the job, who you card --
15 A Correct.
16 Q -- have no union cards?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Who are working for Silo?
19 A Correct.
20 Q Do you take their names down?
21 A They don't give you their names;
22 they won't give them to you.
23 Q So you're frustrated with that.
24 Do you call the business agent?
25 A Yes, I called Joe Firth again
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2 about that. The first time we caught them
3 working on the weekend after the shutdown, I
4 accompanied the labor business agent to crawl
5 under the door, because they locked the door
6 on the front of the job to keep us both out.
7 Q This would be the door that locks
8 for protection on the outside of the job?
9 A Yes, they chain-locked it shut.
10 I wish I would remember his name. A labor
11 business agent. He was there fighting, as
12 often as I was. I'm sure there are records
13 of the problems he had there. He was
14 fighting with them from day one.
15 Him and I went underneath the
16 door. He found his men working there where
17 they shouldn't be. I found carpenters
18 working there where they shouldn't be. I
19 called for help.
20 I'm coming down; I'm coming down.
21 Joe Firth then shows up.
22 Q With respect to you
23 communications with the Local, with Joe Firth
24 or anyone else, did you have any conversation
25 with Mr. Greaney about this issue?
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2 A No, I never spoke to Mr. Greaney
3 at all. I mean, I saw him one time almost a
4 year later.
5 Q How did you learn that Joe Firth
6 was the business agent on this job?
7 A They would tell you who to bring
8 your sheets to every week.
9 Q In the early stages of the job,
10 did you go in and speak with Joe Firth about
11 this job?
12 A Yes.
13 Q As problems started to occur with
14 the shutdown and the discovery of men on the
15 job, who were either without card or wouldn't
16 present their card to you, did you have
17 conversations with Joe Firth in the office
18 when you presented your steward reports,
19 about these issues?
20 A Yes, I did. I told him exactly
21 what was happening, exactly what was going
22 on. And his reaction was, he doesn't want to
23 get thrown in the river.
24 Q Is that a quote?
25 A That's a direct quote. No,
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2 thrown off the building, I'm sorry. I'll
3 quote that.
4 Q You're telling Joe in the office,
5 that you're encountering problems with what
6 you believe to be nonunion workers coming to
7 the jobsite, not reporting themselves to you,
8 working on weekends, or perhaps during a
9 period of time that you believe the job to be
10 shut down. And Joe's comment and response
11 is?
12 A I don't want to go down there, I
13 don't want to get thrown off the building.
14 Q What happens after that?
15 A It becomes increasingly more
16 difficult to contact Mr. Firth. I'm dropping
17 off sheets now at the front desk as the job
18 went on. There was one time --
19 Q Is that his request, that he not
20 meet with you?
21 A No, no. I was supposed to go
22 there once a week around a given time, and
23 drop off the sheets. It seems he's never
24 there when I go in there to meet with him.
25 There was one occasion where I
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2 called on the phone as I'm driving down the
3 highway: I'm in my -- he says, I'm in my
4 office. I said, I'm parking my car now. And
5 I get up there and he's gone.
6 Looking back, I get the feeling
7 he did not want to see me or talk to me, or
8 anything else.
9 About the halfway point of this
10 job, there was a very big safety meeting --
11 Q What would be the halfway point?
12 A About six months after I started
13 there, about six months.
14 -- where the business agents for
15 the laborers, the business agents for the
16 electricians, all the business agents were
17 going to the job because of safety issues on
18 the job. A large meeting outside, maybe 20
19 people on the street. Joe, are you coming?
20 I'm on my way. Never shows up. I'm
21 representing the carpenters out there, and
22 I'm nobody.
23 Q What happens after that meeting?
24 A Basically, nothing. The laborers
25 came to some kind of agreement as far as
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2 their problems were concerned. They had, I'm
3 not sure, they had men on the job working
4 overtime who weren't supposed to be, or
5 supposed to have someone out front guiding
6 traffic, and they didn't want to put a man
7 out front, I guess they were cutting corners,
8 and their shop steward was either allowing
9 them to, or couldn't enforce it.
10 Q Were the laborers working for
11 another contractor, other than Silo?
12 A No, they weren't working for
13 Silo; totally a different contractor.
14 Q When did your first encounter
15 with Mr. Gotti occur in relation to the
16 meeting that you just described? Was it
17 shortly thereafter?
18 A Yeah, it was shortly thereafter,
19 because I remember kind of saying jokingly to
20 the some of the guys, I called for help; and
21 looking back, maybe it wasn't so jokingly.
22 Q Describe to me that day that you
23 first met Mr. Gotti.
24 A I arrived at the job late, it was
25 late that morning. Albert --
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2 Q You were late that morning, but
3 at this period of time, you were still
4 receiving full pay, even for hours you
5 missed?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay.
8 A Mr. Brozac had placed a gentleman
9 named Roger, I should have got his last name
10 the other day from Perry. Roger is a very
11 large guy, kind of crippled, and sat in one
12 place, overruled a super for the job. He
13 didn't do anything with tools, but he was a
14 super that came about four months into the
15 job to just kind of sit and watch.
16 I come in that morning, and Roger
17 is upstairs with two or three other
18 carpenters, company men who had been working
19 with Silo for a while. And Mr. Gotti, you
20 know, who owns the company, there's rumors
21 going around, Mr. Gotti asks me to go into a
22 different room privately and speak with him.
23 And pretty much the gist of his
24 conversation was, that if I make problems,
25 I'm the only one who is going to get in
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2 trouble, if you make waves. You know, you
3 got to let the job go smoothly; basically,
4 when it comes down to it, the only person who
5 is going to have a problem is you.
6 Q What was your impression of what
7 Mr. Gotti was describing as to waves?
8 A Stop complaining about safety,
9 stop worrying about people working on
10 weekends, stop worrying about the people that
11 you don't have to worry about, people who
12 were working on the weekends, who were not
13 being reported to me. Basically what he
14 wanted me to do is to let him do whatever he
15 wanted to do, and stop making noise about it.
16 Q That wasn't specifically outlined
17 to you, but that was your impression of what
18 he wanted?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Did he mention Joe Firth's name,
21 in your conversation?
22 A No.
23 Q Did he mention your
24 communications with a business agent should
25 stop?
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2 A Directly, no; but by saying, you
3 are making problems, I would have to assume
4 that that is me picking up the phone and
5 calling people and saying, help.
6 Q He had indicated to you, don't
7 make any problems?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Let the job flow, if the job
10 doesn't flow correctly, and there are
11 problems, they are going to be your problems?
12 A Exactly.
13 Q And only your problems?
14 A Yes, specifically the only person
15 who is ever going to get caught or go to the
16 union for this, or have problems with the
17 union, is going to be you. Sure enough, he
18 was right.
19 Q After that day, --
20 A So far.
21 Q After that day, did Mr. Gotti
22 regularly show up on the jobsite?
23 A Regularly once a week, for
24 fifteen, twenty minutes.
25 Q How was he reported on your shop
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2 steward reports? Just for the one day?
3 A No: I'm working at the office,
4 I'm doing work elsewhere; put me on the
5 sheets.
6 Q When did that conversation occur?
7 A That conversation occurred before
8 I actually met him. Albert Brozac told me
9 that, gave me his information and stuff. I
10 think I put him on about four sheets, and
11 that was about it.
12 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: Stu, do you
13 need a break?
14 THE REPORTER: I do.
15 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: Let's break for
16 five minutes.
17 (Short recess taken.)
18 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: Let's go back
19 on the record.
20 Q Where we had left off was, your
21 discussions and encounters with Richard
22 Gotti. I think what you had said before we
23 took our break, that Albert had indicated to
24 you, prior to you ever meeting Richard Gotti,
25 that he is an individual with this Social
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2 Security number, and he should be put on your
3 shop steward reports, for what, 35-hour
4 weeks?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Even though he was not present on
7 the jobsite?
8 A Correct. He said to me, he's
9 doing some work here and at the office, he is
10 working in the office.
11 Q But you never had seen him?
12 A No, I never met him up to that
13 point.
14 Q Were there any other workers that
15 you were asked to put on the sheets that were
16 not working on the jobsite?
17 A No.
18 Q Were there any workers who were
19 on the jobsite that you were asked not to put
20 on the sheets?
21 A No.
22 Q So again, anytime that there was
23 work being done at the jobsite, you recorded,
24 with the exception of Mr. Gotti, you recorded
25 appropriately and accurately on your shop
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2 steward reports?
3 A Yes, as accurately as I could,
4 yes.
5 Q What does that mean?
6 A Every time they would stop the
7 job and start it up, I would try to recreate
8 the week that I missed. I may have recorded
9 for one guy, one guy may tell me straight up
10 I worked Thursday, Friday, and Monday. Other
11 people say no, I wasn't here.
12 Q If you filled out shop steward
13 reports like that, it was based on the
14 recollection of the workers?
15 A Yes.
16 Q You can't attest to the fact,
17 because you weren't there?
18 A Right. If we got a record of
19 when were the jobs were shut done, they would
20 match perfectly to that.
21 Q After your discussion with
22 Mr. Gotti where he indicated that if there's
23 problems on this job, they are going to be
24 your problems, what happened after that?
25 A In what way?
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2 Q What was happening on the jobsite
3 after that discussion; was there anything out
4 of the ordinary, did anything else happen?
5 Were you asked to do anything?
6 A We had laborers help us deliver
7 some trucks, that I was asked to turn my back
8 on; and I did.
9 Q Who asked you to do that?
10 A Roger.
11 Q How often did that occur?
12 A Once a week.
13 Q After your conversation with
14 Mr. Gotti, your private conversation with
15 Mr. Gotti, did you make any additional calls
16 to the union, or anyone else, for that
17 matter, on safety issues or manpower issues?
18 A Safety issues? I'm not sure; I
19 may have. I know when it came to people
20 getting killed or something, I was going to
21 report it; period.
22 Q Did you have any other subsequent
23 conversation with Mr. Gotti, after the first
24 conversation?
25 A No. Besides just, hello, how are
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2 you. No; no private conversations, no.
3 Q How often was he on the jobsite?
4 A Three times a week.
5 Q Doing what?
6 A Basically just pulling up,
7 dropping off paychecks, or speaking with
8 Roger. I think at that time, especially at
9 that time, his brother passed away.
10 Q So is it a fair statement to say
11 Mr. Gotti did not work with his tools?
12 A Yes, that's a fair statement to
13 say.
14 Q And that Mr. Gotti, although he
15 was recorded on your shop steward reports for
16 full weeks, was only there for several hours
17 during the week?
18 A That is a fair statement.
19 Q What happened on the jobsite that
20 led to problems for you with the union?
21 Explain that to me, if you would.
22 A The last -- it was probably the
23 last week I was on the job, was the last time
24 it was shut down. To be more specific, I
25 can't be; except that I got a call from one
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2 of the guys working on the job who is a
3 friend of mine, said the job has started up
4 again, and they have a new superintendent
5 working for --
6 Q Can you tell me the name of the
7 individual who called you up, do you recall,
8 your friend?
9 A Yes. Bill. I'm sure it's on one
10 of the sheets somewhere. Bill went on to be
11 a foreman for other companies. Bill would
12 notify me that the job had started up again;
13 and that the main contractor had fired their
14 head representative on the job and hired
15 someone new; that the person who they hired
16 called up the District Council; and John
17 Greaney came down, and Joe Firth finally came
18 down, and a couple of other guys finally came
19 down. They came down on the day, like I
20 said, they had started in again; and I guess
21 they found three or four guys working on the
22 job, who just dropped their tools and ran.
23 Q Were you there that day?
24 A No, no. I got there that day, as
25 soon as my friend called me and told me what
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2 was going on, I was there within a couple of
3 hours. At that point, I guess John Greaney
4 and Joe Firth looked at it and said, you
5 know, you're allowing these guys to come and
6 work on the job whenever they want to, so we
7 are going to replace you.
8 Q The charges against you would
9 indicate that Rambo had made a visit to your
10 jobsite. Do you have any recollection of
11 that?
12 A Yes, Rambo came to the job, I
13 guess about a week earlier; but the issue was
14 the windows were being installed by a
15 nonunion outfit or a noncarpenter outfit; it
16 was a jurisdiction question, whether the
17 windows were metal or aluminum with frames or
18 not. That was the impression I got from
19 John Rambo at the time. That was, I think,
20 about two weeks before the job was actually
21 shut down. At that time, Rambo didn't say
22 anything to me about anything. I mean, there
23 was no issues to be discussed at that time.
24 Q So when Rambo, John Rambo, when
25 Rambo comes to the jobsite, it is at a period
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2 of time when you're present?
3 A Yes.
4 Q What do you believe was happening
5 at the time? When Rambo comes to the
6 jobsite, the issues that he discussed with
7 you are jurisdictional issues pertaining to
8 ornamental ironworkers and carpenters over
9 the installation of windows?
10 A Yes. He's also accompanied by
11 the labor business agent. The one that
12 accompanied me crawling under the doors a few
13 weeks before that. They seemed to have a
14 major disagreement on whether or not there
15 should be a picket line put out. Exactly
16 what that was about, I caught the loud part
17 of it where they almost had a fistfight out
18 in front of the job.
19 The main idea they were having an
20 argument, the gist of the argument was the
21 labor business agent wanted to shut the job
22 down, I think he felt that enough was enough.
23 And John Rambo wanted to try and give them
24 another chance, because the men were going to
25 be out of work if they shut the job down.
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2 That was basically just their argument, what
3 their argument was about. But he was
4 accompanied by the labor BA that day.
5 Q Now, when you were charged on
6 this job by the District Council, and you
7 went to your hearing, that's the petition
8 issue which we'll talk about; I mean, were
9 you clear at that time, what you were being
10 charged for?
11 A No. I requested -- I was told
12 that there were two men from that job that
13 said they worked on the job without union
14 cards, and they directly saw me and worked
15 with me every day. I requested that they be
16 at the hearing, requested that they be at the
17 trial. That request was ignored. And of
18 course I never made that request. That was
19 made directly to Scott Danielson, by the way.
20 There were two copies of the
21 petition, the first one being lost. I
22 thought it was just lost, so I went back and
23 had them sign it all over again. I expected
24 the gentleman at the trial, like I said
25 earlier, to just draw that out and pass it
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2 around for the gentlemen to look at and read.
3 It also disappeared.
4 Q The purpose of the petition
5 signed by workers on the jobsite --
6 A Yes. All shop stewards for each
7 trade on the site, yes.
8 Q Stating what?
9 A Saying that there were numerous
10 union problems on the job, problems with them
11 starting and stopping the job, and having
12 people on the job that shouldn't be there.
13 It finished off at the bottom saying I had
14 fought with them continuously through the
15 whole job, to stop nonunion activity. That's
16 a quote.
17 Q Earlier on, you were making the
18 statement that you know that you may have
19 been able to do more, or that you were not
20 completely without knowledge on what was
21 going on on the job. Explain to me what you
22 meant by that statement.
23 A Well, I mean, towards the end of
24 the job, I realized at that point if I wasn't
25 getting the satisfaction I was supposed to
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2 get from my business agent, I was supposed to
3 go Downtown, and just keep going up the
4 ladder. I didn't. I guess I could have.
5 Q You feel you may have been
6 neglectful in how you proceeded in following
7 this up even further?
8 A Yes.
9 Q What about in terms of things
10 that you may have overlooked, or things that
11 you allowed to happen that were violations of
12 the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Did
13 that occur during this period? In other
14 words, other than Mr. Gotti, were you
15 omitting certain names from your shop steward
16 reports, at their request?
17 A No, not -- again, if at any time
18 it happened, it would be on the weekends.
19 Nobody came to me and said, listen, the guys
20 worked this weekend, he worked, and he
21 worked, but don't put them on the list.
22 Q I think I said this, all right, I
23 want to say it one more time. It is your
24 testimony that during the time that you were
25 on the jobsite, working on the jobsite, that
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2 the steward reports which you prepared and
3 submitted were, to the best of your ability,
4 accurate?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Including all the hours and all
7 the names of workers that were working on the
8 job, with the exception of Mr. Gotti?
9 A Correct, to the best of my a
10 ability.
11 Q During that period of time, given
12 your treatments, were you in fact missing,
13 apart from the shutdowns, were you missing
14 hours in the day, or full days?
15 A Here and there, yes; yes.
16 Q Were you being paid for those
17 days?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Were you reporting your hours as
20 being on the job for those days?
21 A If I was late a couple of hours,
22 I wouldn't put that down on the sheet. There
23 were days when I was out for the whole day, I
24 would put that down.
25 Q So it was a visit by Joe Firth
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2 and John Greaney which led to your being
3 removed as steward from that jobsite?
4 A Correct.
5 Q And that is on the same day that
6 they visited the jobsite and saw workers
7 running from the jobsite; and you had been
8 advised that same day, from Bill, who was
9 working on the jobsite, that this was
10 occurring, and you showed up shortly
11 thereafter?
12 A Yes. It was another gentleman
13 who accompanied them, he passed away
14 recently. I don't recall his name; a union
15 business agent.
16 Q Jerry Philbin?
17 A Jerry and I talked quite a bit
18 about it that day, Jerry was still at the job
19 when I arrived there.
20 Q What were your discussions with
21 Mr. Philbin?
22 A The gist of it was, that I had
23 tried to get some help, I could have tried
24 some more. If they would give me a chance
25 and some backing, they should leave me here
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2 as shop steward. He said no. That's as far
3 as that would go.
4 Q So you were removed. You put
5 your name back on the list, and that was how
6 that proceeded, what happened after that?
7 A I believe so. I would have to
8 look to be sure. If you're not working, you
9 put your name on the list.
10 Q Next thing as it pertained to
11 this job, you were charged and went through
12 the carpenters justice system?
13 A Such as it may be.
14 Q How are we holding up?
15 A I'm ready to go, to tell you the
16 truth.
17 Q What we would like to talk about,
18 and that's complete. So that will take a
19 little bit of time.
20 A Save it for next time.
21 Q And come back?
22 A There's a few more things I want
23 to get straightened out.
24 Q I would advise, given your
25 condition and not feeling so well, I'm
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1 Peter Okeefe 141
2 willing to let that go with the condition
3 that you will return.
4 A Sure.
5 Q I would ask you to look at those
6 W-2 forms for Silo work history and think
7 about the issues that we've talked about.
8 A Yes.
9 Q In terms of being on the list and
10 taking dispatches, and yet receiving benefits
11 continuously from Silo through that year.
12 A I'll take a look at that. And
13 then there's the other companies where I may
14 have worked a week or so, and there's no
15 record of any benefits.
16 Q If you got a W-2 and you had no
17 benefits, that's an issue you want to explore
18 yourself. They definitely owe you benefits,
19 if that's the case.
20 A You have those things I gave you
21 to copy?
22 Q Let's check on those.
23 A You are not going anywhere;
24 neither am I.
25 Q Next time you arrive, we'll give
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2 back the originals.
3 A Yes. I know where the petition
4 is, I'll have that with me. I'll go through
5 the garage again and try to find that slip of
6 paper.
7 Q We'll schedule something. I
8 would like to do it fairly soon.
9 A Sure.
10 Q So if it's not next week, it may
11 be the week after; okay? You tell me what
12 your schedule is.
13 A Next week is the week of the
14 17rh. My son, he is coming home from
15 college, so I will be pushing my Friday
16 injection back to Sunday. Friday would be
17 impossible.
18 MR. SOBOCIENSKI: Let's go off
19 the record.
20 (Time noted: 12:15 o'clock p.m.)
21
22 * * *
23
24
25
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2 C E R T I F I C A T E
3
4
5
6 STATE OF NEW YORK )
7 ) ss:
8 COUNTY OF ROCKLAND )
9
10
11 I, STEWART NISSENBAUM, a Shorthand
12 Reporter and Notary Public within and for the
13 State of New York, do hereby certify:
14 That the within is a true and
15 accurate transcript of the testimony taken on the
16 15th day of March, 2005.
17 I further certify that I am not
18 related to any of the parties to the proceeding by
19 blood or marriage, and that I am in no way
20 interested in the outcome of this matter.
21 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
22 set my hand this day of , 2005.
23
24
STEWART NISSENBAUM
25
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4 WITNESS:_________________________
5 TESTIMONY DATE:__________________
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7 ___ ___ __________________ __________________
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