Laborers for JUSTICE© 1997-2006 All Rights reserved. Not for republication on the internet without permission.

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
----------------------------------------------x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
 -against-                        Plaintiffs,       90 CIV 5722
                                                    (CSH)
DISTRICT COUNCIL OF NEW YORK CITY
AND VICINITY OF THE UNITED
BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND
JOINERS OF AMERICA, et. al.,
                                 Defendants.
                                                                                                                                              x
Independent Investigator Deposition
     DEPOSITION of MICHAEL DOLPHIN, taken
by the Independent Investigator, Walter Mack,
 Esq., pursuant to letter subpoena, at the Offices
 of Doar, Rieck & Mack,Esqs.,217 Broadway,7th
 Floor, New York, New York 10007-2911,before
 Stewart Nissenbaum, on Monday, October 4,2004,at
 4:20 p.m., a Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public
 of the State of New York.
 
                                                        ORIGINAL
            TANKOOS REPORTING COMPANY, INC
 305 Madison Avenue .          142 Willis Avenue
 Suite 449                     P.O.       BOX 347
 New York,N.Y.10165            Mineola,N.Y.11501
 (212)349-9692                 (516)741-5235
 
(212) 349-9692 TANKOOS REPORTING COMPANY, INC.(516) 741-5235

               1                                                                2
                           APPEARANCE S:
                2
                           DOAR RIECK & MACK
                3                 217 Broadway - 7th Floor
                                  New York, New York 10007-2911
                4
                           BY:    WALTER MACK,    ESQ.
                5                 Independent Investigator
               6
                           BENJAMIN TORRANCE,     ESQ.
                7          Assistant United States Attorney
                           United States Department of Justice
                8                 86 Chambers Street
                                  New York, New York 10007
                9
               10          O'DWYER & BERNSTEIN,     ESQS.
                           Attorneys for Union
               11                 52 Duane Street
                                  New York, New York 10007
               12
                           BY:    JASON FUIMAN,    ESQ.
               13
               14          RUBINSTEIN & COROZZO,     LLP
                           Attorneys for Witness
               15                 260 Madison Avenue
                                  New York, New York 10016
               16
                           BY:    RONALD RUBINSTEIN,     ESQ.
               17
         18          ALSO PRESENT:
         19                 DONALD SOBOCIENSKI
         20                                   *    *
               21
         22
         23
         24
         25

Laborers for JUSTICE© 1997-2006 All Rights reserved. Not for republication on the internet without permission.

                            

              1                                                        3
              2                       MR. MACK:  On the record.
              3                       I'm going to take a number of
              4               minutes to describe what we are doing,
              5               Mr. Dolphin,  and hopefully answer any
              6                questions you or your counsel may have
              7                about what is happening today,  and its
              8                significance to me, and who I am.
              9                       My name is Walter Mack, and I am
             10                the Independent Investigator appointed
             11                by Judge Haight, who is a Federal Judge
             12                sitting in the Southern District of New
             13                York.  And the Order appointing me, you
             14                and your counsel have received a copy of
             15                a few moments ago, but it is a public
             16                document; and I have basically been
             17                functioning as the Independent
             18                Investigator for approximately eighteen
             19                or nineteen months, maybe a little bit
             20                longer.
             21                       I have a number of duties that
             22                are set forth in the Order which you
             23                have, but one of the duties that I have
             24                is the authority to undertake and
             25                investigate, when questions arise
                          

             1                           M. Dolphin                 4
             2               concerning job referral lists and the
             3               assignment of shop stewards to
             4               particular jobsites under the
             5               jurisdiction of the District Council of
             6               Carpenters.  I have the authority to
             7               obtain information and facts about that;
             8               and you've received a notice, which I'll
             9               mark at some time, which basically
             10              requires you, as you have today, to
             11              appear, with counsel if it is your
             12              choice, to respond to questions
             13              concerning complaints or other subjects
             14              that are of significance to me.
             15                     Let me go carefully,if I may,
             16              through what my authority is.  I am not
             17              part of the District Council.  I work
             18              for the judge; in other words, I'm an
             19              agent of the Court.  I have no
             20              independent authority to discipline you
             21              or to take any action against you
             22              directly, and you are one of many
             23              individuals who have been here as part
             24              of my program of gathering data
             25              concerning complaints that are made to
                         

              1                            M. Dolphin                   5
              2               the hotline, which,   if you have seen the
              3               Order,  is part of my responsibility.
              4               We've received complaints as to some
              5               shop stewards,  concerning how they have
              6               come to be assigned to particular
              7               jobsites over the time period,   and some
              8               of those complaints I look into
              9               personally,  others I rely on the
             10               District Council to do.
             11                       And so you should not look upon
             12               this as a situation where I am
             13               necessarily looking into your conduct,
             14               or that you have done anything wrong,
             15,              but I have considered it more important
             16               in my time here,  to actually describe
             17               for the Government,   for the District
             18               Council,  and for the Court,  how the
             19               procedures have specifically worked.
             20                       As a result,  I have had a number
             21               of shop stewards in over the last maybe
             22               eight or nine months.    Eventually,  I'll
             23               be preparing a report to the Court about
             24               what my findings are.    Those findings
             25               generally go as to how the system is
                         

             1                          M. Dolphin                 6
             2              functioning.  It's been my opinion, as
             3              time goes on, that very few people truly
             4              understand how the system works, and it
             5              is my belief that the judge does not
             6              understand it, and therefore, I have
             7              been gathering facts and evidence.
             8                     My criticisms, if I have
             9              criticisms, may really be about the
            10              District Council.  You shouldn't look at
            11              your presence here being directed at
            12              you.  I will be asking you about
            13              subjects as far back as 1998.   I will
            14              give you records that I have obtained
            15              from the District Council, which I will
            16              be asking you for information about, so
            17              I can understand.
            18                     Now, one of the things that I
            19              want to make sure that you understand,
            20              I'm not an agent of the District
            21              Council, and I say that because today I
            22              received a letter addressed to a
            23              District Attorney in Kings County about
            24               another matter which seems to imply that
            25               I'm part and parcel of the District
                        

             1                           M. Dolphin                 7
             2               Council's own enforcement mechanism.
             3               That's not true.
             4                      I will go at some length today to
             5               make sure you understand you have
             6               different rights, and there may be
             7               different issues with respect to my
             8               gathering of information.
             9                      Shortly, you will be placed under
            10               oath, and probably the most important
            11               thing that I have to say to you, which
            12               I'm sure your lawyer, who I've known for
            13               a long time, has already told you, is
            14               that you should tell the truth and honor
            15               your oath.  The reason I talk about
            16               that, I assume that you would, but there
            17               have been a number of carpenters who
            18               have appeared before me in other
            19               matters, who, for reasons of their own,
            20               have chosen to deceive me, or try to
            21               deceive me, and I need to tell you, and
            22               there's nothing I'm saying to you that I
            23               don't say to every person who sits where
            24               you are, and that is, that I am a
            25               federal officer, and when you're under
                        

              1                          M. Dolphin                  8
              2              oath, you will be obliged to tell the
              3              truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
              4              the truth.  If you choose not to do
              5              that, for whatever reason, you run the
              6              risk of being charged with a federal
              7              crime, which is lying under oath,  or
              8              perjury.  I don't expect you to do that,
              9              but I want to make certain that,  as I
             10              said, that basically my role, more than
             11              anything else,  is seeking the truth,
             12              seeking the facts,  so that I can write
             13              up those facts and present them to the
             14              Court for whatever information or for
             15              whatever value they have.
             16                     In addition to that, since I am
             17              trying to gather information about how
             18              shop stewards receive their work and how
             19              they are assigned to particular
             20              jobsites, and whether that system,  as
             21              such, is working the way that at least I
             22              was led to believe it works,  should you
             23              not provide information to me,  or give
             24              me false information or withhold
             25              information, you also run the risk of
                         

               1                             M. Dolphin                    9
               2                being charged with the crime of
               3                obstruction of justice,    or withholding
               4                information so that I am not able to be
               5                accurate in my description to the Court.
               6                        At the end of talking to many
               7                shop stewards,   or a number,  I will be
               8                preparing a report to the Court which
               9                will be presented to the Court with
              10                copies to the District Council and to
              11                the U.S.  Attorney's Office,   and in
              12                essence,  I will be making certain
              13                recommendations,   or I will be describing
              14                the system as I have found it.     There
              15                will be a transcript made,    and that
              16                transcript is being taken by the
              17                handsome gentleman to your left; and his
              18                purpose here is to ensure that I have an
              19                accurate record of my questions, your
              20                answers,  and what has happened.
              21                        Now, there have been individuals
              22                who, when I go through the subject
              23                matter of my questions -- and I will try
              24                to give you as much assistance with
              25                respect to documentation at the District
                           

             1                          M. Dolphin                10
             2              Council, so that you can follow along
             3              what I'm asking, and you will have the
             4              same records I have.  Of course, you
             5              will have the benefit of your own
             6              recollection and your own knowledge
             7              about why things happened and how things
             8              happened.
             9                     Because this is a proceeding as
            10              if it were being conducted in court, you
            11              have certain rights here which go beyond
            12              what you would have were this a
            13              proceeding of the District Council.  And
            14              that is, if you choose, and you feel
            15              that I have asked a question which, in
            16              your opinion, and that of your counsel,
            17              would tend to incriminate you, you
            18              believe that it might, -- and I know
            19              your lawyer certainly knows the Fifth
            20              Amendment privilege -- you have the
            21              right to assert that privilege in this
            22              proceeding.
            23                     This is not a criminal
            24              proceeding, this is a civil proceeding.
            25               I was appointed under a civil index
                        

               1                              M. Dolphin                  11
               2                number,  a civil case,  a stipulation,   and
               3                what have you.    I am not a prosecutor.
               4                I have been a prosecutor.     I have been a
               5                defense lawyer.    I basically am a person
               6                seeking information as accurately as
               7                possible.   If you choose to take the
               8                Fifth Amendment -- I have no idea why
               9                you would, and I would say there have
              10                been very few assertions of the Fifth
              11                Amendment; there have been many more,
              12                shall we say,   false statements to me by
              13                a series of carpenters who will be
              14                facing possible consequences of federal
              15                prosecution.    But those people basically
              16                lied under oath,   and they will have to
              17                face the consequences of those acts.      I
              18                don't expect you will do that.      But the
              19                reason I mention to you the Fifth
              20                Amendment,  if I should ask a question,
              21                you have very informed and experienced
              22                counsel here,   and it is your choice to
              23                take the Fifth Amendment,    that is up to
              24                you.
              25                        I would say this: The District
                            

             1                          M. Dolphin                12
             2              Council has the view  -- and I'm going
             3              to go around and introduce everybody in
             4              the room so you know who is here and
             5              what is happening -- they have at least
             6              told me that they do not recognize that
             7              a member of the District Council has a
             8              Fifth Amendment privilege, should they
             9              ask you questions and should they bring
            10              you down to talk about the same subject
            11              matter.
            12                     And basically -- I cannot advise
            13              you as to what the significance is of
            14              your taking the Fifth Amendment in the
            15              presence of an attorney from the
            16              District Council who is with us here
            17              today, and I'm going to introduce him in
            18              a moment.   I don't really know what the
            19              policy is;  I know what they say, but I
            20              have not seen,  in the time that I have
            21              been around, what I would call a
            22              vigorous follow-up to Fifth Amendment
            23               type assertions. But I can't speak for
            24               them.  That's one of the reasons they
            25               have their own counsel here present.
                          

             1                          M. Dolphin                13
             2                     It is Mr. Jason Fuiman who is
             3              here.  He's an attorney for the District
             4              Council.  He doesn't represent you, he
             5              represents them.  But at the same time,
             6              from time to time, I know that people
             7              who are represented by their own lawyers
             8              have asked to speak to a representative
             9              of the District Council about subjects
            10              that might be mutual, or something that
            11              they need some assistance on.  And
            12              Mr. Fuiman, as a representative of the
            13              District Council, is here as my guest.
            14                     What I've done under most
            15              circumstances, when I conduct
            16              proceedings like this, is invite a
            17              representative of the two parties to the
            18              civil litigation.  The U.S. Attorney's
            19              Office, Civil Division, is represented
            20              today by Mr. Benjamin Torrance,
            21              Assistant United States Attorney in the
            22              Civil Division.  He is not a prosecutor.
            23              He is a representative of the United
            24              States, who,  as your attorney may have
            25              told you, is one of the signatories to
                        

             1                           M. Dolphin                14
             2               the Stipulation and Order appointing me.
             3                      They are here, as well, as my
             4               guest, and they also are permitted to
             5               ask questions if they wish, in order to
             6               clarify a point.  My reason for this is,
             7               because often information -- let me put
             8               it another way.  Often I'm ignorant, I'm
             9               a lawyer, not a carpenter, and I find
             10              people who have had more experience, and
             11              what have you, will ask something that
             12              needs to be asked.  But basically, this
             13              is my proceeding in the sense of an
             14              Independent Investigator's proceeding,
             15              and it is a proceeding being conducted
             16              under the Order appointing me.
             17                     The Fifth Amendment privilege
             18              which you assert, should you do so,
             19              that's your choice; and before you do
             20              so, discuss that matter with
             21              Mr. Rubinstein outside, and decide
             22              whether you wish to do so.
             23                     While on that topic, I should say
             24              this:  The things I'm saying, I say to
             25              everybody that comes here.  I'm not
                        

             1                          M. Dolphin               15
             2              singling you out for a particular
             3              drastic warning.  I've accentuated the
             4              importance of telling the truth, the
             5              whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
             6              But I have been unhappy that some
             7              individuals felt they could tell
             8              untruths to me and the District Council.
             9              That would be a mistake, in my judgment.
            10              I know there are a number of carpenters
            11              that regret that act.  I don't expect
            12              you to do that.
            13                     One final matter that's
            14              important.  If you take the Fifth
            15              Amendment, which is your constitutional
            16              right in this proceeding, I am
            17              permitted, if I wish, to infer or
            18              decide, as a result of that, to rely on
            19              other evidence that I have available to
            20              me in drawing conclusions about certain
            21              subjects.  I'm going to be asking
            22              straightforward stuff.  I personally
            23              don't understand why it would be
            24              necessary to take the Fifth Amendment;
            25              but that's up to you.  Should you take
                        

             1                           M. Dolphin                16
             2               it, since this is a civil proceeding, I
             3               am permitted basically to draw an
             4               inference or to draw some meaning from
             5               that, that you were unwilling to talk
             6               about certain things, and that may be of
             7               some value in my reporting.
             8                      So there's maybe a cost to taking
             9               the Fifth Amendment in this proceeding;
            10               but that's up to me, and it is a matter
            11               of discretion.  And everything I do,
            12               everything I do is subject to Judge
            13               Haight's review, and I certainly cannot
            14               speak for the judge, whether I draw
            15               conclusions, make a recommendation, make
            16               a finding, that's me, I'm just his
            17               agent; and on the proceedings that have
            18               happened so far and will happen in the
            19               future, I prepare a report.  That report
            20               is submitted to the judge.  The
            21               Government and the District Council have
            22               a right to comment on the report
            23               beforehand, it then gets presented to
            24               the Court, the judge assesses it,
            25               decides whether it is adequate, and
                        

              1                            M. Dolphin                 17
              2               decides whether it should be put in the
              3               public record or not.
              4                       So, what I've tried to do in a
              5               few minutes,  is explain the process that
              6               is underway,  and what's happening.   In
              7               your specific circumstances,   if you're
              8               wondering why you are here,   I can tell
              9               you your name has been mentioned in
             10               anonymous calls to our hotline,   that you
             11               function as an individual working for
             12               Prince Carpentry,  and that's not
             13               consistent with the job referral rules.
             14               I didn't pick your name out of a hat.
             15               I'm following up on the complaints,
             16               recognizing the way I found it, many
             17               times one's intuitive understanding of
             18               the system is different from how it
             19               actually works.   Time and time again,  I
             20               learn more about the system by listening
             21               to the individuals involved,   such as
             22               yourself or other shop stewards that you
             23               may know,  and that doesn't mean that you
             24               have done anything wrong,   it simply may
             25               mean you've taken advantage of the way
                         

              1                          M. Dolphin                18
              2              the rules have been enforced or the way
              3              things happened.
              4                     I don't have disciplinary
              5              authority.  Basically, I'm conducting a
              6              factfinding mission to understand
              7              certain aspects of your work record and
              8              your job referral history.   So I'm going
              9              to proceed pretty much chronologically.
             10              I'll begin with copies of your work
             11              referral history, your benefit records,
             12              certain dispatches, and I'll ask you
             13              questions about specific events during
             14              the course of that.  That's how the
             15              matter is going to proceed today.
             16                     Having said that,  let me see if
             17              there's anything else I should tell you.
             18              I think I've said that any time you want
             19              to ask a question of me,  or your counsel
             20              wishes to ask a question of me,  I want
             21              to be as fair and as direct and ask as
             22              good questions as I can,  that are easily
             23              understood; and the judge would expect
             24              no less of me.   If at any time you would
             25               like to talk with Mr. Rubinstein outside
                         

             1                           M. Dolphin                 19
             2               about something raised, all you have to
             3               do is say, I would like to talk to my
             4               lawyer, you will have an opportunity to
             5               do that.  I know the judge will hold me
             6               to a high standard of being fair.
             7                      This may not be the most favorite
             8               thing you would like to do today; but a
             9               number of other individuals have had to
             10              do this.  And I personally think at the
             11              end of the day, the system will work
             12              better, or at least it will be better
             13              understood.  It might be changed.   I
             14              keep challenging the District Council:
             15              If you don't like the system, you have
             16              the right to go to the judge and change
             17              it.
             18                     Your name has come up on a number
             19              of occasions in association with Prince.
             20              There are a number of questions I want
             21              to go into today, and I want to be
             22              efficient.  We are starting at 4:00
             23              o'clock so that a working carpenter
             24              doesn't lose a day of work.
             25                     Having said all that, do you have
                        

              1                           M. Dolphin                 20
              2               any questions, or anything you would
              3               like to ask me before we begin today?
              4               I'm going to introduce everybody around
              5               here, and you can ask questions any
              6               time.  You get another chance to ask it.
              7               I wanted to give you a fair,  concise
              8               summary of what we are doing and why you
              9               are here today.
             10                      Is there anything you would like
             11               to ask me, Mr. Dolphin?
             12                      MR. DOLPHIN:   No.   Besides can I
             13               get a bottle of water.
             14                      MR. MACK:  That's for you.   Help
             15               yourself.
             16                      I'll introduce the other people
             17               and give Mr. Rubinstein an opportunity
             18               to ask what he wants to ask.
             19                      The gentleman to my right is Don
             20               Sobocienski.  He is part of the
             21               Independent Investigator's staff,  and
             22               he's far more knowledgeable than I am
             23               about most factual things that occurred.
             24               He will, or may,  ask a question from
             25               time to time. But basically, he is an
                         

             1                          M. Dolphin                21
             2              individual who is basically my right
             3              hand, and the individual most
             4              knowledgable about what's happening, and
             5              he assists me.
             6                     I've already introduced Jason
             7              Fuiman, a lawyer to the District Council
             8              of Carpenters.  He's here to represent
             9              them, to ask questions.  But if you have
            10              questions that you would like to address
            11              to the District Council outside the room
            12              with your lawyer, he is here, he's here
            13              to make sure that I'm fair and that if
            14              there's anything he thinks needs to be
            15              brought out, or that I overlooked, he
            16              can do that.  That's one of the reasons
            17              he's here at my invitation.
            18                     As I've mentioned to you,
            19              Mr. Torrance is an Assistant Attorney
            20              from the Civil Division, not a
            21              prosecutor.  He is here to represent his
            22              client, the United States, who is a
            23              party to the Consent Decree and
            24              Stipulation which basically give me my
            25              authority.
                        

              1                           M. Dolphin               22
              2                     Mr. Rubinstein, you and I have
              3              known each other for some time.  I'm
              4              glad to see you here, and I know Mr.
              5              Dolphin has the benefit of an
              6              experienced counsel.Anything you would
              7              like to ask or say?
              8                     MR. RUBINSTEIN:  Not at this
              9              time.  Thank you.
             10                     MR. MACK:  Fine.  That being
             11              said, let's me ask that the witness be
             12              sworn:
             13         MICHAEL         DOLPHIN,         the witness
             14         herein, being first duly sworn by Stewart
             15         Nissenbaum, a Notary Public of the State of
             16         New York, was examined and testified as
             17         follows:
             18         EXAMINATION BY
             19         MR. MACK:
             20              Q.     Mr. Dolphin,I want to go through
             21         a couple of things. I have sort of a routine
             22         here which I will try to follow; but the
             23         first thing that I always do, and I'm sure
             24         your lawyer will acknowledge this, what I've
             25         done is marked certain pieces of paper.   The
                        

               1                              M. Dolphin                  23
               2           markings and the initials and numbers mean
               3           nothing on their own.    They are simply a way
               4           for me to keep track of the various records.
               5                        So the first thing I want to show
               6           you is a notice which is marked MD-1.      I'm
               7           providing you a copy; it should be a copy of
               8           what you've already received.     I would like
               9           you to take a look at it.     I will provide
              10           courtesy copies.
              11                        My question to you would be: Is
              12           this a copy of the document you received
              13           which asks for your presence here,
              14           eventually?   It was adjourned until today.
              15                A.      Yes.
              16                        (Notice to Appear marked Exhibit
              17                MD-1.)
              18                Q.      One of the things you'll see in
              19           there,  is that I asked you to bring with you
              20           certain records,   including shop steward
              21           reports, various records and certifications
              22           for carpenter skills and training.
              23                        Let me ask you this: Do you have
              24           any shop steward reports during the time or
              25           for sites at which you worked at Prince
                           

                1                             M. Dolphin                   24
                2          Carpentry?
                3                A. I don't have them. I didn't keep
                4          them.   Whatever I signed,   I turned in.
                5          Papers I might have did over,     I threw them
                6          out.
                7                Q.      When you received this notice,
                8          you had basically no copies of shop steward
                9          reports for your work at Prince?
               10                A.      No.
               11                Q.      Are there any other records or
               12          documents which contain information about
               13          your work as a shop steward for Prince?
               14                A.      No.
               15                Q.      In answering that question,    then,
               16          it would be fair to say that you, yourself,
               17          have no records concerning your shop
               18          stewardship for Prince Carpentry;     is that
               19          correct?
               20                A.      That's correct.
               21                Q.      What about any records and
               22          certifications for your skills?      In other
               23          words, do you have anything with you?       And we
               24          can make a copy during the break.
               25                A.      I was told that you guys had all
                           

               1                              M. Dolphin                  25
               2           this.
               3                Q. We have the underlying records at
               4           the District Council, but we don't have the
               5           actual copies of your certifications.
               6                        We can do that during our break.
               7           We take a break about every 45 minute to
               8           give our expert stenographer a few moments,
               9           and during that period, we can take them and
              10           make copies and give you back the originals,
              11           just so we have it,   so you don't have to be
              12           taking your time now,   and we can proceed.
              13                        What I intend to do today is,
              14           carefully and pretty much in chronological
              15           order -- there's a copy of a number of
              16           documents that have been presented to me by
              17           the District Council which concern your
              18           stewardship and your various referrals as a
              19           carpenter.   So I'm going to give you copies
              20           of those;  also a copy to your counsel,    so you
              21           can follow along with questions,    so you will
              22           have the same documents I have.
              23                        These documents are yours to keep
              24           and you can take them with you. I don't know
              25           if you have copies of your job referral
                           

             1                            M. Dolphin               26
             2          history, but they are available to you and
             3          you will have a copy today, and they will
             4          hopefully make the questions a little bit
             5          clearer.
             6                      The first thing I want to do is
             7          give you what has been presented to me as a
             8          record of your benefit fund contribution
             9          history at the District Council.  That's
             10         marked MD-2.  I am going to ask that you
             11         maybe look on with Mr. Rubinstein --
             12         actually, -- yes, a copy for you,
             13         Mr. Torrance and Mr. Fuiman.
             14                     MR. MACK:  Actually, I will have
             15              an extra copy here, Ron.
             16                     MR. RUBINSTEIN:  Thank you.
             17                     MR. MACK:  That will assist you.
             18                      (Benefits record marked Exhibit
             19              MD-2.)
             20              Q.     You take a few moments.  But,  in
             21         essence, what that is, is a record produced
             22         to us which concerns the benefit
             23         contributions made in your name, and actually
             24         they started the last page with the first
             25         entry being May 31,  1998.  These are
                        

             1                          M. Dolphin               27
             2         contributions you will see which are
             3         primarily from Prince Carpentry, and run
             4         through August 10m 2004, with a gap, and
             5         basically these records are a record of what
             6         contributions have been made in your name
             7         from that time period, maintained at the
             8         District Council Benefit Funds.
             9                     Next I'm going to give you a copy
            10         of, at least as of the end of August, what is
            11         known as your job referral history,
            12         maintained at the District Council, and this
            13         is a record, again, of the out-of-work list
            14         entries with respect to you.
            15                     I'm going to give you a copy, to
            16         your counsel as well, so he can follow along
            17         with me, and copies to our colleagues from
            18         the Government and from the District Council.
            19                     You will notice that your skills,
            20         at least as of the date of August 25, are on
            21         the first page of MD-4.
            22                      (Job referral history marked
            23               Exhibit MD-4.)
            24               Q. Then I want to give you what is,
            25         at least, what I have again been furnished by
                        

              1                            M. Dolphin                28
              2          the District Council, the various dispatches
              3          you had to particular jobsites,  and I believe
              4          it is complete, starting in February,  1999,
              5          and going to the present.    That's marked as
              6          MD-3.  Let me give you a copy of that.
              7                      (Record, dispatches, marked
              8               Exhibit MD-3.)
              9               Q.     These are documents again
             10          maintained at the District Council and these
             11          also will be a subject of some of my
             12          questions today.
             13                      You might want to take just a few
             14          moments to familiarize yourself with what
             15          they are.  I'll do my best to make sure that
             16          you understand what I'm asking you about, and
             17          I will try to refer to the documents,  so that
             18          you understand what I'm about.
             19                      I'm going to ask you just a
             20          couple of questions here about your current
             21          status.  Are you currently working,  at the
             22          moment?
             23               A.     Yes,  I am.
             24               Q.     Where are you working' what
             25          jobsite are you actually working on?
                         

              1                          M. Dolphin                 29
              2              A.     I'm working on 92nd and First
              3         Avenue.
              4              Q.     Is that a Prince Carpentry job?
              5              A.     Yes, it is.
              6              Q.     I think what I'll do is just
              7         start in a chronological sense.   If you turn
              8         to MD-4, which is your job referral history,
              9         to the second page, although the District
             10         Council has taken the view that asking
             11         questions about the subject matter as far
             12         back as  '98 is not as much significant, in
             13         fact, given their action so far,  they don't
             14         seem to believe that it is fair to consider
             15         these time periods or it is too long ago.   I
             16         have thought about it and taken the view
             17         that, at least since I have no disciplinary
             18         authority of my own, and I am interested as
             19         to some of the rules that were in place back
             20         then, to at least ask you some specific
             21         questions.
             22                      I see in the entry there, that
             23         you were added to the out-of-work list on
             24         October 9,  1998.  Do you see what I'm
             25         referring to up there?
                         

              1                             M. Dolphin                 30
              2                A.     Yes,  I do.
              3                Q.     If I look at your benefit
              4          history, which is MD-2,   it would be the very
              5          first page,  it appears to me that you would
              6          have been working at that time for Prince
              7          Carpentry.   So my first question is:    Why
              8          would it be permissible for you to add
              9          yourself to the out-of-work list, maybe you
             10          didn't, maybe I'm assuming, but it appears to
             11          me,  if I look at your benefit history -- it
             12          is actually the last page in MD-4 --
             13                       MR. RUBINSTEIN: The last page in
             14                MD-2.
             15                       MR. MACK: Correct. And the
             16                second page in MD-4.
             17                Q.     You can take a moment and look at
             18          that.   But at least,  it appears to me that
             19          you were working for Prince Carpentry -- let
             20          me say this in fairness.    We have not
             21          subpoenaed Prince Carpentry.    I have the
             22          authority,  with the judge's permission,   to
             23          subpoena them and require their recordkeeper
             24          to come in with all -- so this is a record of
             25          their report,  of the hours that you worked,
                          

              1                           M. Dolphin                 31
              2          to the District Council from which they have
              3          paid benefits.
              4                      Most carpenters that I have
              5          talked to, when they are in the situation,  I
              6          tell them, and I want to reiterate to you,
              7          will say, "I wasn't working then,  Prince made
              8          a mistake." I say, fine, if in fact you were
              9          not working when you added yourself to the
             10          out-of-work list, I will take an additional
             11          step of subpoenaing from Prince,  all of
             12          their, basically, payroll records.   That's
             13          possible.
             14                      I don't want to mislead you here,
             15          that these benefit records are based on
             16          Prince's payment and report to the District
             17          Council Benefits Fund.  It is at least
             18          theoretically possible that they are
             19          mistaken, that they were paying benefits and
             20          you weren't working.  But I would tell you,
             21          that that is not necessarily something you
             22          can rely on.  Most people have decided, when
             23          I give that option, to say, you know,  I
             24          believe I was working and you don't need to
             25          go there.
                            

               1                            M. Dolphin                 32
               2                      I also want to point out,   these
               3          are not Prince's records;these are record of
               4          the District Council as a result of reports
               5          by Prince and payment by Prince into the
               6          benefits fund for these time periods.
               7                      Do you understand what I've told
               8          you?
               9               A.     Yes.
              10               Q.     That being said, were you working
              11          in October of 1998,  for Prince Carpentry?
              12               A.     To the best of my knowledge, yes.
              13               Q.     So what would be the reason that
              14          you would put your name on at least what is
              15          called the out-of-work list,   in that period?
              16               A.     Because I guess the job was
              17          winding down and I put my name on the list
              18          again.
              19               Q.     I need to understand that.
              20          Recognize I am a reporter,  in essence,  of
              21          facts.  Were you of the view that you could
              22          put yourself on the out-of-work list even if
              23          you were working at the time?
              24               A.     When you say "were you of the
              25          view," what do you mean?
                          

             1                           M. Dolphin                 33
             2               Q.     Did somebody tell you, you know,
             3          it is okay to be on the out-of-work list even
             4          if you're working, as long the job is winding
             5          down?
             6               A.     No.  No.  I put my name on the
             7          list.  They didn't tell me.   I knew the job
             8          was winding down; I needed another job after
             9          that job was finished.
             10              Q.     I'm trying to determine whether
             11         you were advised that that was okay, or you
             12         just assumed that was okay.
             13              A.     I assumed it.
             14              Q.     Now,  I want to pull out -- I want
             15         to go to the next period; and again I realize
             16         this is some time ago,  and I want to go to
             17         what I believe to be, at least I'm able to
             18         see it,  it appears to me that you were
             19         working for Prince,  if I rely on your Benefit
             20         Fund records,  for October, you can look at
             21         these and check them,  I'm reading them, for
             22         October  '98, November '98, December '98,
             23         January  '99, February '99, and that you were
             24         receiving basically full month hours for all
             25         of those months;  is that accurate?
                         

              1                           M. Dolphin                34
              2              A.     That's accurate.
              3               Q.    At the same time,  at least the
              4         records on the out-of-work list, have you on
              5         the out-of-work list for that entire period.
              6         You can just correct me, but I see you go on
              7         in October  '98; you're resequenced, you stay
              8         on it,  they are unable to reach you in
              9         December.   I don't know if you're familiar
             10         with these things --
             11               A.    I'm not.
             12               Q.    Take your time,  I'll try to
             13         explain it to you.   I see you go on the
             14         157 -- let me show you one of the things
             15         here.   When you go on in October, '89, you go
             16         on 608 North?
             17               A.    Where?
             18               Q.    At the very top,  October 9, 1998.
             19               A.     I see that.  I don't see where I
             20         go on.
             21               Q.     Keep going down the list there.
             22         You go on 608?
             23               A.     Got you.
             24               Q.     On 608, which is distinguished
             25          from 608 North?
                         

               1                              M. Dolphin                  35
               2                A.      Back then back to 608.
               3                Q.      You're resequenced and put there.
               4          They don't reach you,    they can't reach you,
               5          and then you put yourself on February 3rd,
               6          1999,  on the 157 list.    If you take a look at
               7          the date,   2/03/99.
               8                A.      I'm following.
               9                Q.      On February 8,  you're actually
              10          referred out.    So at least it is my view,    I
              11          may be wrong,   that the records say that
              12          during that entire time period you were
              13          actually at work for Prince Carpentry?
              14                A.      That's probably correct.
              15                Q.      Do you remember where you were
              16          working then?
              17                A.      No, sir.
              18                Q.      I think you told me just a few
              19          moments ago that the job was winding down?
              20                A.      That's why,  I assume,   I put my
              21          name on the list.
              22                Q.      You put your name on the list in
              23          October.    Did that job wind down and you go
              24          on another job after October?
              25                A.      Another job with Prince.
                           

              1                           M. Dolphin                36
              2              Q.      Do you remember what job that
              3         was?
              4              A.      No, sir.
              5              Q.      I'm going to see if I can help
              6         you here with some of these things.   If you
              7         look at MD-3,  I think you'll need all of
              8         these,  this is the one that has a big "MD-3"
              9         on the top,  and basically the one I'm looking
             10         at is the one that talks about February 8,
             11         1999.   It is the top one, the top page; and
             12         then the pages underneath it talk about it.
             13         They are all related to February 8, February
             14         9.
             15              A.      This one here?
             16              Q.      Yes.  Actually, if you look at
             17         it,  it is the first three pages of MD-3.  All
             18         three of those pages refer to this dispatch.
             19         Again you may not be familiar with these, but
             20         let me try to be as clear as I can.   This
             21         refers to a job at 42nd Street,  looks like
             22         jobsite 41st Street and Eighth Avenue.
             23               A.     Where are you?
             24               Q.     I'm looking at the first page;
             25         but also if you look at the page you were
                         

             1                          M. Dolphin                37
             2         looking at, you will also see where it says
             3         "Job Address."
             4              A.     Job name, 42nd Street
             5         Development.
             6              Q.     Underneath, it says 41st Street
             7         and Eighth?
             8              A.     Okay.
             9              Q.     Job:   Basement shanty; foreman's
            10         name, John Ree.  Job start, February 9,  1999.
            11              A.     Okay.
            12              Q.     I think you've acknowledged that
            13         basically you were working during this time
            14         period.   I would like to know, were you aware
            15         that Prince needed a shop steward for this
            16          job at 41st and Eighth?
            17              A.     Yeah.
            18              Q.     Did you have any discussions with
            19         people from Prince that this job would be one
            20          that they wanted you at?
            21              A.      It's probably more I wanted to be
            22          there.  I seen the job coming up, and I put
            23          my name on the list.
            24               Q.     Okay.  Now, again, I want to
            25          understand this situation.  You put your name
                        

             1                           M. Dolphin                38
             2          on the list, but you were working.  So what
             3          is happening there; how were you able to put
             4          yourself on the out-of-work list if you're at
             5          work?  What was your thinking on that
             6          subject?
             7               A.     What was my thinking to put my
             8          name on the list?
             9               Q.     Right.
             10              A.     To get a job.
             11              Q.     Were you, at least it's been
             12         explained to me, and I may be wrong, because
             13         I have a somewhat cynical view of the
             14         out-of-work list myself, but the out-of-work
             15         list, you were at work; and in fact were at
             16         work during this entire time period and were
             17         working, and were dispatched as if you were
             18         out of work.  Do you understand what I'm
             19         saying?
             20              A.     One hundred percent.
             21              Q.     So, again I don't want to put
             22         words in your mouth.  You wanted to be
             23         dispatched as a shop steward to another
             24         Prince job.  Would that be fair?
             25              A.     That's fair.
                        

              1                              M. Dolphin                   39
              2                 Q.      And this job at 41st and Eighth
              3           was a job that you knew about that was coming
               4          down the pike;   is that correct?
               5                A.      That's  correct.
               6                Q.      How did you know that?    In other
               7          words, you're working for Prince; were you on
               8          a different jobsite at the time?
               9                A.      Yes, but I walk by there to go to
              10          the union hall.
              11                Q.      So; how did you become aware that
              12          Prince would be having a job here on 41st and
              13          Eighth?
              14                A.      I guess by working with the
              15           foremen,  or they told me there's another job
              16           coming up.
              17                Q.      Was there a particular -- was it
              18           John Ree who you had those discussions with?
              19                A.      No.  That was the first job I
              20           ever worked with him.
              21                Q.      Do you recall who it was that
              22           told you --
              23                A.      I'm not going to say one hundred
              24           percent, but the job where there was a guy
              25           Pete Atta; he was the foreman.      He didn't
                           

               1                              M. Dolphin                   40
               2           specifically tell me,   I knew -- locker room
               3           talk:  There's a job coming up.
               4                Q.      So what I'm trying to figure out
               5           is, you know, because that was the nature of
               6           the complaint that was made.     Again, my job
               7           is to describe the system, not to make
               8           judgment --
               9                A.      Okay.
              10                Q.      -- you know,   in terms of what
              11           should have happened, and what have you.       It
              12           is important that I understand how the system
              13           was actually functioning during this time
              14           period.   Okay?   And this is a job that you
              15           knew was coming down the pike,    I think,  to
              16           use your word?
              17                A.      So to speak.    I didn't say
              18           "pike";  I think you used it.
              19                Q.      It's not an unfair description?
              20                A.      One hundred percent.
              21                Q.      So,  did you take any particular
              22           action that would permit you to be dispatched
              23           to this job?
              24                A.      Put my name on the list.
              25                        Let me ask you this: You had a
                           

               1                              M. Dolphin                  41
               2          skill at that time called foreman/layout,      and
               3          the specific skill that was placed in this
               4          dispatch, you can see that is foreman/layout.
               5          If you take that second page,     it is actually
               6          in front of you right now, turn the page
               7          back.   Either page,   either the second or
               8          third page,   it will say:   Skills needed for
               9        job,    foreman/layout.    On the third page it
              10          says skill:    Foreman/layout.
              11                        MR. RUBINSTEIN:    You see that,
              12                Mike?
              13                        THE WITNESS:   Yes,  I see it.
              14                Q.      So, my question is,   do you
              15          remember having a discuss with anybody at
              16          Prince about what skills should be requested
              17          for this job at 41st and Eighth?
              18                A.      I could have had a discussion
              19          with the foreman saying that I should put
              20          this down.
              21                Q.      Foreman/layout?
              22                A.      Yes,  it is possible.
              23                Q.      Do you think that happened?
              24                A.      Probably.   But --
              25                Q.      Finish the answer.
                           

             1                           M. Dolphin                42
             2               A.     -- not one hundred percent.
             3               Q.     Now, I noticed at a later time,
             4          that's why I ask it, actually in 2000, you
             5          delete the skill foreman/layout, we'll get to
             6          it.  So do you have any recollection of why
             7          you would have had it on, and then deleted
             8          it?  I can wait until we get there when you
             9          do it.
            10               A.     Probably to get the job.
            11               Q.     We'll get there.  Now, do you
            12          have like any special relationship with
            13          Prince, or do they just appreciate that you
            14          did a fine job as a shop steward, and they
            15          want you on their jobs?
            16               A.     I have absolutely no
            17          relationship.  I started with them, and I
            18          just continued with them.  Relationship in
            19          the sense of shop steward and a boss, that's
            20          it.  There's no other further relationship.
            21               Q.     I don't mean to imply anything
            22          wrong.
            23               A.     There's is none, absolutely
            24          nothing; no dinners, nothing.
             25              Q.     Who is the person at Prince that
                        

              1                          M. Dolphin                43
              2         is someone that you're closest to,
              3         professionally closest to?
              4              A.     I'm close to all the people I
              5         work with.  I've got a relationship, I can't
              6         say -- you know, we butt heads, no question I
              7         butt heads with every one of them.
              8              Q.     In terms of your relationship, I
              9         look at your benefit history and I see you've
             10         worked primarily for Prince since 1998, and
             11         that's one of the reasons why you're here, is
             12         to see how that happens.I think I know both
             13         sides, because I've heard both sides.  Right
             14         now, I'm trying to flesh out what happened.
             15                     Are there particular people at
             16         Prince that are most respectful and
             17         appreciative of your work at Prince?
             18              A.     I would say so, yes.
             19              Q.     Who would you put there?
             20              A.     The super.
             21              Q.     Who is that?
             22              A.     Freddie Dorschug.
             23              Q.     Could you spell the last name, or
             24         do the best you can?
             25              A.     Okay.  D-o-r-s-c-h-u-g, I think.
                        

              1                           M. Dolphin                 44
              2               Q.     He's the super?
              3               A.     He's the super, he is  the boss.
              4          He is not the owner; he is the super.
              5               Q.     Who else there would you say are
              6          people who are appreciative and feel that you
              7          are a good shop steward,  and like to work
              8          with you?
              9               A.     I don't know if any of them
             10          appreciate.  You know, I'm put there and we
             11          develop a relationship.   Again, we butt
             12          heads, we try to come to an understanding
             13          with every issue.
             14               Q.     I'm not implying anything wrong.
             15          I just want to know who are the people who
             16          let you know, for instance, that there's a
             17          Prince job and give you some idea when it is
             18          available, when it is going to start, you
             19          know, and assist you in the sense of being
             20          available for it; who are the people in that
             21          category?
             22               A.     Only one person, would be
             23          Freddie, he is the super of the company.
             24               Q.     Would it be fair to say that from
             25          time to time, he would let you know there's a
                         

             1                           M. Dolphin               45
             2         Prince job starting up at a certain location
             3         at a certain time?
             4              A. He could, or a foreman who I'm
             5         working with.
             6              Q.     Who would be the foremen that you
             7         would list as people who might do that to
             8         assist you?
             9              A.      I guess any one of the particular
            10         foreman I worked with at the time,  from
            11         Prince.   I might have worked with four of
            12         them,  five of them.
            13              Q.      Would it be fair to say that
            14          those would let you know that a Prince job
            15         was coming and give you some,  at least
            16         heads-up,  if that's the right word, that
            17          there would be a Prince job coming up that
            18         you might be interested in?
            19              A.      I don't know if --
            20               Q.     Put it in your own words.
            21               A.     The way you put it made it look a
            22          little different.  Talk:  There's work, we
            23          got a job on Governors Island, we got fifteen
            24          jobs coming up, we have one starting
            25          Downtown.  And then it might be me who
                        

             1                           M. Dolphin                46
             2          initiates it:  Oh, this one is winding down.
             3               Q.     They would answer questions of
             4          you, in other words, where's the job, when
             5          would it be starting, things of that nature.
             6          Would that be fair?
             7               A.     Yeah.                       f
             8               Q.     Let me continue here and ask you
             9          some questions.  We are going to basically
             10         proceed chronologically.  I see you, I think
             11         you worked continuously at least for Prince,
             12         I see you added a skill in June of 1999, and
             13         we are looking at MD-4, second page.  It
             14         actually says Page 1.
             15              A.     '99 what?
             16              Q.     June 7th, 1999.  I see you add --
             17         that skill is Hilty Ramset?
             18              A.     It is a shotgun they shoot the
             19         brake with.
             20              Q.     This might be a long-shot.  Is
             21         there any particular reason you added that
             22         skill in June 1999, or is that something you
             23         received training on?
             24              A.     We received a certificate from
             25         the District Council;  that was one of the
                        

             1                          M. Dolphin                47
             2         eight classes we had to take to become a shop
             3         steward.
             4              Q.     I see you, in February 2000,
             5         adding yourself to the out-of-work list.
             6         Again, when I go to your benefit history, at
             7         least it appears to me in that benefit
             8         history that you have steady work.  Your
             9         benefit history is MD-2; we start from the
            10         back.  And I see you with steady work at
            11         Prince all the way through '99.  Were you at
            12         that 41st Street job that entire time period?
            13              A.     That's correct.
            14                     How long did that job go on?
            15              A.     To the best of my knowledge, it
            16         was right after the new year, maybe around
            17         February 2000.
            18              Q.     Again I see, going through your
            19         benefit history, that you are basically
            20         working for Prince right through January and
            21         through February.
            22              A.     Of what?
            23              Q.     Of 2000.  I see you added to the
            24         out-of-work list on February 10th, 2000.
            25         Take a look at it.  It is on the top there,
                        

              1                          M. Dolphin                48
              2         the third page, you see that, added to 157.
              3              A.     February.
              4              Q.     2/10/2000.  The first thing, it
              5         says, add list 157, carpenter number, 608.
              6         1607.
              7              A.     I have it.
              8              Q.     You add yourself to that list,
              9         all right?
             10              A.     Yes.
             11              Q.     Your benefit history has you
             12         working through February.  That could
             13         theoretically be wrong, but I don't know that
             14         it is.  Do you have a recollection of what
             15         was happening there in February, and why you
             16         were adding yourself to the out-of-work list?
             17              A.     I guess the job was winding down.
             18              Q.     But you still were working?
             19              A.     That's correct.
             20              Q.     Did anyone ever say to you,  or
             21         describe to you, gee, you have to be out of
             22         work before you put yourself on the
             23         out-of-work list?
             24              A.     No.
             25              Q.     Did you see the out-of-work list
                         

             1                          M. Dolphin               49
             2         as a means simply to make yourself available,
             3         whether you were working or not; in this case
             4         you were working, so that you could be
             5         available for the next job that Prince had?
             6              A.     No, it was to get on that list
             7         that took maybe four,five months before they
             8         called you.
             9              Q.     Okay.  But you're working during
            10         that time period; so in essence, you're
            11         building in lead time; is that right?
            12              A.     Yeah; to bring it down.
            13              Q.     So by the time the time had gone
            14         by, you would be low enough on the list to be
            15         referred to a shop steward job; is that
            16         right?
            17              A.     That's correct.
            18              Q.     Did you have any reason to
            19         believe that that was not the way the rules
            20         were supposed to work?
            21              A.     No, I didn't -- maybe I didn't
            22         care.  I don't know.
            23              Q.     That's a fair answer.  I mean,
            24         one of the things I'm looking at is not only
            25         what you were doing and whether you believed

Laborers for JUSTICE© 1997-2006 All Rights reserved. Not for republication on the internet without permission.

                        

              1                          M. Dolphin                50
              2         that was okay or not okay; did you believe it
              3         was okay or not or didn't you care it was
              4         okay or not?
              5              A.     That's correct.
              6              Q.     The latter?
              7              A.     Yes.  I needed work.  I had to
              8         work.
              9              Q.     I understand that.  You are not
             10         the only individual who sat there who said
             11         the same thing.
             12              A.     You tell me to swear the truth.
             13         That's what I tell you.
             14              Q.     The truth allows me to do a
             15         better job in seeing what happened.  Did
             16         anybody ever come to you from the District
             17         Council, a business agent or anyone else,  and
             18         say -- and probably didn't call you Mr.
             19         Dolphin, whatever your nickname is:  Hey,
             20         you're working; you're on the out-of-work
             21         list; did anybody say to you that's not the
             22         way it is supposed to function?
             23              A.     No.
             24              Q.     Has anybody,  to this date, said
             25         to you that the people on the out-of-work
                         

              1                          M.  Dolphin                51
              2         list have to be out of work, that's why it is
              3         called the out-of-work list?
              4              A. They might have brought it up at
              5         the meetings, if they caught you, they were
              6         going to fine you $100, I think.  I know they
              7         brought it up at the meetings, that if you
              8         get caught working on the out-of-work list,
              9         it is a fine.
             10              Q.     Do you remember when?  Was that a
             11         recent meeting?
             12              A.     I haven't been to no meetings in
             13         two years.
             14              Q.     Was it your decision, you tell
             15         me:  The worst that can happen,  I'll get
             16         fined 100 bucks, and otherwise I can work the
             17         entire time period.  What was your thinking
             18         about --
             19              A.     To get the next job.
             20              Q.     If the fine were greater, would
             21         that have influenced your judgment?
             22              A.     Very possible.   I didn't think of
             23          it. I put my name on the list to get another
             24          job.
             25              Q.      In terms of being concerned
                         

              1                           M. Dolphin                52
              2         whether being caught or not, tell me what
              3         your thinking was on that.
              4              A.     I didn't hear many people get
              5         caught.  There was people that got caught,
              6         but it wasn't that many.
              7              Q.     Tell me what your thinking was.  I
              8         mean, when you say not that many, how few?
              9              A.     You might hear in bar-room talk,
             10         he got caught working on the out-of-work
             11         list.  It is only a $100 fine.   That was the
             12         understanding.
             13              Q.     Did you know anybody who was
             14         caught, as a shop steward,  and fined?
             15              A.     No.
             16              Q.     I appreciate your candor,  Mr.
             17         Dolphin.   I don't want you to feel, you
             18         know -- part of my job is to describe how the
             19         system worked and whether people -- there was
             20         a vigorous system in place to find whether
             21         people were working or not.  Whose fault is
             22         that?  Those are questions that are too
             23         complex for me to be able to assess.   Now I'm
             24         trying to find out how these things worked
             25         and what the thinking was of the people that
                          

              1                           M. Dolphin               53
              2         were working on the out-of-work list.
              3                     So you were at work. Did you
              4          have a job in mind when you put your name
              5          back on the out-of-work list in February
              6          2000?
              7              A.     I'm sure I did, if there was a
              8          job coming up. We were winding down;  if we
              9          were winding down in February, I put my name
             10          on the list, hoping to get another job with
             11          Prince.
             12              Q.     Basically, was there any
             13          particular way that you tried to figure out
             14          when you would be low enough, how much lead
             15          time you needed in order to be available when
             16          Prince was going to look for another shop
             17          steward?
             18              A.     Not so much that particular.
             19          They were taking people at 400 off the list,
             20          so you knew you were coming close.  If I
             21          heard it, hey, what number were you?  Four,
             22          five,600,they might take a shop steward off
             23          the list.
             24               Q. Is that Prince or the District
             25          Council when you say that?
                         

              1                           M. Dolphin                54
              2               A.     District Council.
              3               Q.     You wanted to go back to a Prince
              4          job; would that be fair?
              5               A.     Yes.
              6               Q.     How did you make it more likely
              7          than not that you would end up at a Prince
              8          job again in the future?  What was the system
              9          or what was your method, or what was your
             10          thinking?
             11               A.     Bring it all the way down as far
             12          as I could go to the bottom, and tell the
             13          boss I'm down at the bottom.
             14               Q.     You would tell the Prince boss,
             15          I'm down real close now?
             16               A.     Yeah.
             17               Q.     It is a good time to ask for a
             18          shop steward; is that fair?
             19               A.     Correct.
             20               Q.     Is that fair?
             21               A.     That's fair.
             22               Q.     Let's continue.  I have a number
             23          of skill changes, and it is on your work
             24          referral history; and I'm just wondering
             25          whether any of these trigger any particular
                         

               1                            M. Dolphin                 55
               2          reason why you did or not.
               3                      The first entry I have is March
               4          23rd, 2000.  There's a whole series there of
               5          skill adds:  Drywall,  framing, refrigeration,
               6          heavy-gauge framing.   On April 6, you add
               7          yourself to the 608 list.   Go down, you
               8          change your phone number, you go from
               9          917-488-2612,you change the number, it might
              10          have been a wrong number,  917-488-0612.   Was
              11          that a cell phone?
              12               A.     No.   Same number.  0612 is the
              13          proper number.
              14               Q.     It was just a wrong number they
              15          had for you?
              16               A.     Yeah,  I guess.
              17               Q.     Then you delete your
              18          foreman/layout skill on April 18,  and then
              19          that very day,  I want you to look at it, you
              20          are dispatched to a Prince job at HMV
              21          Palladium.  You can see that by looking at
              22          Page 4 of MD-3.   I guess the question is,  if
              23          you could just describe to me what happened
              24          there.
              25               A.     I have no idea what you mean,
                          

              1                          M. Dolphin                56
              2         what happened.
              3              Q.     Let me give you the full picture
              4         I have, so you can try to explain to me, if
              5         you remember.  And we'll go slowly.
              6                     In fact, let me do this, let take
              7         a five-minute break to allow the
              8         stenographer, the hardest-working person
              9         here, to take a five-minute break.  And then
             10         we'll pick up with that job.  Okay?
             11              A.     You're the boss.
             12                     MR. MACK:  That's the first time
             13              I've had that appellation.  Let's take a
             14              break.
             15                     (Short recess taken.)
             16                     MR. MACK:  On the record.
             17              Q.     Mr. Dolphin, let me remind you,
             18         as you know, you're still under oath.  Any
             19         questions, anything you want to ask before we
             20         keep going?
             21              A.     No, sir.
             22              Q.     Where we left off here, we were
             23         talking about this HMV Palladium job.  The
             24         reason I'm asking you about it is, I see a
             25         lot of skills being added, your phone number
                        

              1                           M. Dolphin                57
              2         is, I think maybe the best thing is,
              3         corrected.  Foreman/layout is deleted.   And
              4         the other factor which you may or may not
              5         remember, but I mention to you as possibly
              6         assisting you in remembering what was going
              7         on here, is that there was a shop steward on
              8         that job by the name of Michael Cullen who
              9         had been dispatched there approximately three
             10         months before, and who was replaced by you.
             11                     So having said all that, does
             12         that, in any way,  refresh your recollection
             13         of what was happening there, what had gone
             14         on?
             15                     You're absolutely right to be
             16         looking at the fifth page in, which you have
             17         open there in front of you,  that dispatch
             18         from Jimmy.  And it says on there,  "I spoke
             19         to Fred Kennedy, he said hold the job."   You
             20         see that right there in that little
             21         description at the bottom,  "it's okay now"?
             22         The reason I'm mentioning those to you,  I'm
             23         trying to refresh your recollection about,
             24         first of all, why was the shop steward who
             25         was on this job replaced?   What were the
                         

              1                            M. Dolphin                58
              2          circumstances of your dispatch to it?
              3               A.     The only recollection that I was
              4          told was, that he was never there and if he
              5          was there, he was drunk.
              6               Q.     Is that right?
              7               A.     The only thing I was told, he had
              8          a problem with a girlfriend or a wife, and he
              9          was drinking.
             10               Q.     I see.
             11               A.     That's the best that I knew about
             12          that.
             13               Q.     And so did you know that at least
             14          some people wanted to replace him with you?
             15               A.     No.
             16               Q.     So was this a job that you
             17          knew -- I'm trying to figure out how you got
             18          to be dispatched to this job.   Putting aside
             19          the fact that you were working for Prince
             20          anyway, during this time period, do you
             21          remember, you know, getting ready to take
             22          this job or a business agent or a person from
             23          Prince trying to assist you to get the job?
             24                      The reason I say that is, that on
             25          the very day, the very day you're deleting a
                         

              1                          M. Dolphin                59
              2         skill, and less than a month before, you are
              3         adding skills that are specifically placed or
              4         put on this skill required, I'm trying to see
              5         whether or not there was some assistance or
              6         coordination getting you to the site.
              7              A.     No, no, there was definitely no
              8         assistance.  I don't know why I deleted or
              9         even changed Locals or add Locals, whatever.
             10         I don't know if that's adding or changing.
             11              Q.     Okay.  There are a couple of
             12         things that may or may not be true, and you
             13         may or may not remember this.  Your benefit
             14         record reflects you are working steadily for
             15         Prince during this entire time period;
             16         somewhere, anyway.
             17              A.     Right.
             18              Q.     So, putting that aside, on March
             19         23rd, 2000, you add a whole number of skills
             20         which, on April 18, 2000, are placed, and are
             21         placed on the request for the dispatch.  Let
             22         me tell you what skills those are.  The
             23         reason that I'm asking you about it, is, that
             24         when Mr. Cullen was dispatched, none of these
             25         skills were on his dispatch. So between his
                         

              1                          M. Dolphin                60
              2         dispatch and yours, drywall, framing,
              3         refrigeration, and heavy-gauge framing were
              4         all added by you, and showed up on Jimmy's,
              5         or whoever it was, skill requirements.
              6                     I'm at least intrigued as to why
              7         all that was done, especially when you say
              8         Michael Cullen wasn't exhibiting the best
              9         skills of a shop steward.  It is, to me, a
             10         desire on their part to get somebody working
             11         for Prince.
             12                     Are you telling me that, or are
             13         you telling me you don't remember how you got
             14         to the site?
             15              A.     Everything was there;
             16         refrigeration, I don't know where it came
             17         from.  Maybe I put it on there.  I told the
             18         boss I don't remember that there was heavy-
             19         gauge metal, sheetrock, protection, the
             20         Hilty.
             21              Q.     Refrigeration stands out to me.
             22              A.     I don't know why that was put
             23         there.  First of all, it is not even our
             24         field, refrigeration.
             25              Q.     When I see refrigeration on a
                        

              1                          M. Dolphin                61
              2         request, I always perk up a little bit.
              3              A. Sure.
              4               Q.    I'm asking you why, if you know
              5         why refrigeration would have been on Prince's
              6         request, and do you have any knowledge about
              7         Fred Kennedy being involved in this jobsite?
              8               A.    No.  I might have met him once
              9         there.  I don't think I dealt with him there.
             10         I went up with the papers,  I think it was
             11         Lawrence that I dealt with.   Freddie
             12         definitely came to the job there.
             13               Q.    Was there some effort to get
             14         Cullen, Michael Cullen,  removed from that
             15         site because he was not measuring up to what
             16         was required of him?
             17               A.     I don't know nothing about that,
             18         if there was.
             19               Q.    Do you recall whether or not you
             20         knew beforehand that you were going to be
             21         called and asked to go to this jobsite?   The
             22         reason I say that,  the day before, your
             23         number is changed to reflect a cell phone,  if
             24         you look on 4/17,  and that's why it is
             25          confusing.
                         

              1                           M. Dolphin               62
              2              A.     I see 4/17, 9:00 o'clock in
              3         morning.
              4               Q.    The actual time is 9:01; the
              5         number goes back and forth --
              6               A.    I never had a phone 2612.
              7               Q.    Then it goes back.
              8               A.    I don't know whose phone it is.
              9         My only number was 488, and it was my
             10         sister's phone, 0612.
             11               Q.    Is the correct number 0612, or --
             12               A.    Yes.
             13               Q.    Do you have any recollection of
             14         making number changes during that time
             15         period?
             16               A.    Absolutely not.
             17                     MR. RUBINSTEIN:   Walter, you see
             18               the time before, it looks like someone
             19               changed the number, the entry before on
             20               6/17, from 0612 to 2612o.  Then they
             21               changed it back to the correct number.
             22               In other words, this is clearly an
             23               incorrect number.
             24               A.    It is all done in the same day.
             25         Is that the same time?
                         

              1                           M. Dolphin                63
              2              Q.      Yes.
              3              A.      9:00 o'clock in the morning.
              4              Q.      9:01.  The first one is at 9:01
              5         and the second one is at 9:01?
              6              A.      The next day is 9:18.
              7              Q.      The next day it is 12:16.  Add
              8         three, it is California time.   You delete
              9         foreman/layout,  and approximately two hours
             10         later, you're referred to this job to replace
             11         Michael Cullen, with refrigeration skill,
             12         amongst others.
             13              A.      I don't remember.  I'm sure my
             14         name was on the bottom of the list, but I
             15         don't remember exactly.
             16              Q.      I guess that's a result of
             17         somebody checking up to make sure they had
             18         the right phone number. Somebody is at least
             19         calling to make sure you can be reached
             20         without fail.
             21              A.      Then they say I changed it and
             22         then changed it back.
             23              Q.      That's what it says.
             24              A.      At the same time, or is that
             25         three hours later?   Nine o'clock in the
                         

              1                           M. Dolphin                 64
              2          morning, I had one number and three hours
              3          later, I changed it back?
              4               Q.     No.  It looks like there was a
              5          double-check and a change to ensure the right
              6          number was there.
              7               A.     I'm looking at the next day,  the
              8          18th.
              9               Q.     I'm going back to the 17th.   All
             10          I'm trying to do is show this to you -- all
             11          of this is dynamics, skills,  phones, calls--
             12          to see whether that refreshes your
             13          recollection as to why you were the person
             14          who was chosen to replace Michael Cullen.
             15               A.     I don't know,  sir.
             16               Q.     Was there any type of
             17          prearrangement or interaction with Prince
             18          that would have permitted this dispatch for
             19          you to Prince?
             20               A. I might have told them that I was
             21          winding down or I was on the list where I was
             22          working.
             23               Q.     In terms of Michael Cullen, was
             24          Michael Cullen on the job when you got there,
             25          or did any business agent tell you this guy
                         

              1                           M. Dolphin                65
              2          Cullen --
              3               A.     The foreman told me.
              4               Q.     Did the foreman tell you he
              5          needed to be laid off?
              6               A.     He wasn't there, he said he was
              7          drunk all the time, he wasn't even there.
              8          But I think he came to the job then, and he
              9          was drunk, he told one of the guys working
             10          there that he had a problem with his wife or
             11          girlfriend.
             12               Q.     Did you have any discussion with
             13          Michael Cullen?
             14               A.     No.
             15               Q.     The other point I want to make, I
             16          guess, is that when Michael Cullen was
             17          originally dispatched to the job, the only
             18          skills he had were drywall, framing,
             19          protection, and shop steward.  So all the
             20          skills that were added in April, including
             21          refrigeration, which always catches my
             22          attention, and you added as well, gives me
             23          reason to think that there might have been
             24          some discussion back and forth about getting
             25          you to that job.  But you don't remember
                         

               1                              M. Dolphin                   66
               2           anything?
               3                 A.     No,  I don't remember.    Could have
               4          been.
               5                 Q.     Okay,  fair enough.
               6                        MR. SOBOCIENSKI:    Was there any
               7                 need for refrigeration at that job?
               8                        THE WITNESS':   No.   It is 638
               9                 guys.
              10                        MR. SOBOCIENSKI:    Was there any
              11                 refrigeration done on that jobsite?
              12                        THE WITNESS:    It was a school,
              13                 NYU.  Was there refrigeration?     I'm sure
              14                 the 638 guys do it.    I don't even
              15                 know -- we can't lift a forklift,     the 14
              16                 guys and the 5 guys do that.
              17                 Q.     That being true, why did you add
              18           the skill of refrigeration?
              19                 A.      I have no idea.
              20                 Q.     As I mentioned to you,    on March
              21           23,  you add refrigeration to your skill set,
              22           2000. And so I'm just -- all I'm trying to
              23           do is see whether that refreshes your
              24           recollection that somebody said to you, you
              25           know, that it would be to your advantage to
                           

              1                           M. Dolphin                67
              2         have refrigeration available as a skill.
              3              A.     No,  but it definitely stands out.
              4         Nobody said nothing to me.
              5              Q.     My understanding is,  that you
              6         just don't remember why you added
              7         refrigeration to your skill set.
              8              A.     I don't remember.
              9                     MR. MACK:   Anything else,
             10              Mr.  Sobocienski?
             11                     MR.  SOBOCIENSKI:  No.
             12              Q.     How long did that job last there
             13         that you -- that we have just been talking
             14         about,  the HMV Palladium job, 114 East
             15         14th Street?
             16              A.     I guess it lasted maybe a year,
             17         you know,  I don't know the exactly date.
             18              Q.     Let me see if your job referral
             19         history can help us.I see a May 10,2001 --
             20              A.     Where are we?
             21              Q.     It is Exhibit MD-4,  your job
             22         referral history,  it is May 10th, 2001, at
             23         1:37 p.m. when you add the three hours,  and
             24         it says Michael Dolphin add to work list,  45.
             25              A.     At 638 May 10th.
                         

              1                          M. Dolphin                68
              2              Q.     May 10th.10:37 a.m. I'm adding
              3         three hours and getting 1:37 p.m.?
              4              A.     Okay.  45.
              5              Q.     Right.
              6              A.     And 60, and then nothing?
              7              Q.     I'm going to ask you questions.
              8         I have you working steadily at Prince
              9         throughout this entire time period, so at
             10         least the benefit records seem to -- I don't
             11         want to assume anything, but it appears that
             12         you were working at the time you put yourself
             13         on the list.
             14              A.     In May of 2001?
             15              Q.     I have Prince reporting on MD-2,
             16         204 hours for a period ending May 31, 2001,
             17         which would at least give me strong reason to
             18         believe that when you added yourself to the
             19         out-of-work list in May 2001, May 10th, you
             20         had for that month, 204 hours reported by
             21         Prince on your behalf.
             22              A.     Yeah.
             23              Q.     May I assume that you were
             24         working during the period that you put
             25         yourself on the list there?
                         

               1                            M. Dolphin                69
               2               A.     That's correct,  May 10th, yes.
               3               Q.     I then see on June 11,  2001, that
               4         you add foreman/layout again.    You added it,
               5         took it off,  and added it again.   So I'm
               6         trying to figure out, was there any
               7         particular thing that you have in mind as to
               8         why you're putting foreman/layout on and off?
               9               A.     Maybe the next job needed
              10         foreman/layout.
              11               Q.     That's possible.   I'm asking if
              12         you remember.
              13               A.     I don't remember one hundred
              14         percent,  no.  I'm trying to follow you.
              15               Q.     Let's  take --
              16               A.     June?
              17               Q.     We are in 2001.   If we start
              18         here,  if you just go down the list,  on May
              19          10th, you add yourself to 608 and 45,  you
              20          have changed your phone again to another
              21          phone, to Exchange 347 837-5414,  then they
              22          can't reach you,  unable to reach you.
              23               A.     When?
              24               Q. May 21st. They are trying to
              25          reach you on a referral.   You're working at
                          

              1                           M. Dolphin                70
              2          the time.
              3              A.      Okay.
              4              Q.      June 6 they are unable to reach
              5         you.  They miss you on June 7th; June 8th.
              6          Then you add on June 11, foreman/layout.  You
              7          see they are unable to reach you all those
              8          time periods to give you a referral because
              9          you're working at the time.
             10              A.      Where do you have the add-on on
             11          June 8th?
             12              Q.      The skill added, June 11, 2001,
             13          it says 6:57 a.m.?
             14              A.      Gotcha.
             15              Q.      They are unable to reach you for
             16          a referral.  They are assuming incorrectly
             17          you're not working, and they are trying to
             18          give you referrals and they can't reach you.
             19          I don't know whether they are calling a wrong
             20          number or you're just ducking them.
             21               A.     I don't know.  I don't know why
             22          they didn't reach me.
             23               Q.     You couldn't have worked, anyway;
             24          you were working for Prince at that time.
             25          Isn't that correct?
                         

               1                            M. Dolphin                 71
               2               A.     I was working,  yeah.
               3               Q.     You add yourself back to the
               4         out-of-work list on June 21,   2001.
               5               A. I was taken off in June?
               6               Q.     You were taken off because they
               7         were unable to reach you.    You submitted a $5
               8         pager bill,and you were resequenced, meaning
               9         that you were taken off, you added yourself
              10         back on,  and said, basically,  nobody could
              11         reach you because your pager wasn't working.
              12         Was that accurate?
              13               A.     It could be accurate.   I don't
              14         remember.   I don't remember one hundred
              15         percent.
              16               Q.     You then put,  just follow along
              17         with me here,  a series of hold calls starting
              18         June 27th,  2001.
              19               A.     Okay.
              20               Q.     Where it says  "hold calls."
              21         6/27,  at 11:22 a.m.,  the real time of  that is
              22         actually 2:22 p.m.,   it is in the afternoon,
              23         probably near the end of the workday.
              24                      You know the rules, that
              25         basically you're not permitted to put hold
                          

              1                          M. Dolphin                72
              2         calls if you're working.
              3              A.     Right.
              4              Q.     You were working during this time
              5         period, if you look at your benefits, you'll
              6         see that, right through June.  In fairness,
              7         here, I see you working through June, and
              8         then in July, you don't get your full
              9         complement of carpentry hours, so you may
             10         want to look at it.
             11              A.     This?
             12              Q.     Yes, MD-2.
             13              A.     Is that all I got for July?
             14              Q.     It looks like only 62 hours.
             15              A.     We were finished there.  I went
             16         with this company for four days, Unistall,
             17         they put in the beds and the desks in the
             18         same job.  Then I was out, I was out for a
             19         little while there.
             20              Q.     That's what I'm asking.
             21              A.     I was unemployed, I don't know,
             22         maybe two weeks, four weeks.  I don't
             23         remember.  But I definitely left them, Prince
             24         was finished and I went with Unistall.
             25              Q.     What was happening with Prince at
                         

              1                           M. Dolphin               73
              2         that time, were they not working, or are you
              3         looking for another job?  What was going on?
              4              A. I guess my name was still
              5         probably on the list.
              6              Q.     It was.
              7              A.     So I guess I was looking for
              8         another job.  I went with them and then I
              9         think I went on unemployment, I don't know
             10         how long.
             11              Q.     As that summer goes on, I see you
             12         adding skills.
             13              A.     Where are we?
             14              Q.     We are moving through July.  I
             15         have you working for at least 62 --
             16              A.     Which is about a week and a half.
             17              Q.     Was there any reason -- you were
             18         holding calls,  the calls go from June 27th,
             19         you were working during that time period,
             20         so -- did there come a time in July when you
             21         remember you stopped working for Prince, you
             22         worked for a week and a half in July,  I just
             23         don't know when.   Do you know?
             24              A.     No,I don't know, but I know that
             25          I definitely went from Prince to Unistall.
                         

             1                           M. Dolphin                74
             2               Q. Then you will see on August 22,
             3          you're adding skills, and on August 24,
             4          you're dispatched to Prince again.  I want
             5          to -- let's pull that together and look at
             6          it.
             7                      What I'm trying to find is how
             8          you were able to get to another Prince job,
             9          that's the gist of the question.  You'll need
             10         to have in front of you, MD-3,the August 24,
             11         2001 dispatch, the job is 220 Riverside
             12         Boulevard, Building B, at 70th Street and
             13         Riverside Boulevard.
             14                     I see you adding skills, you
             15         added laser safety and power activated tool.
             16         The company asked for power-activated tool.
             17         So there's at least an implication that you
             18         at least are aware that there's a job coming
             19         up for Prince, if I'm wrong straighten me
             20         out, and basically you added that skilled;
             21         and sure enough, two days later, you are
             22         referred to another Prince job.
             23                     So I'm asking whether you have
             24         any recollection of communications with
             25         Prince on this subject, or about, you know,
                        

              1                           M. Dolphin               75
              2         getting requested or dispatched as a shop
              3         steward on August 24, 2001.
              4              A.     I don't know why, I know I took
              5         these two classes in school, I guess.  I
              6         might have talked to them and told them I put
              7         it on my list.
              8              Q.     Take your time.  You know, the
              9         reason is, here's another Prince job, okay --
             10              A.     No question.
             11              Q.     -- and there are changes, skill
             12         changes, specific requests that, at the very
             13         least, you've basically had hold calls
             14         starting in June, running throughout the
             15         month of June, into August.  Then near the
             16         end of August, you add a skill which is
             17         requested; and you end up again as a Prince
             18         shop steward.
             19                     So that's, at least
             20         circumstantially,  evidence that you may have
             21         been in discussion about how you could become
             22         eligible or available for Prince as a shop
             23         steward; and this particular job site is at
             24         70th Street and Riverside Boulevard.  Looking
             25         at all of those developments, does it refresh
                         

             1                          M. Dolphin                76
             2         your recollection as to how this job was
             3         secured?
             4              A.     There was no secure -- I added
             5         them and maybe he asked for them, and he told
             6         me this is what he needed, and I added them.
             7              Q.     Who is the "he" in that sentence?
             8              A.     It would be the super.
             9              Q.     What is his name again?
            10              A.     Freddie.
            11              Q.     The foreman on this job was Kevin
            12         Corrigan?
            13              A.     That's correct.
            14              Q.     Was he someone you had any
            15         discussions with before being dispatched to
            16         that job?
            17              A.     No, I talked to him.  As far as
            18         discussions --
            19              Q.     Did you have discussions with him
            20         before you were dispatched to this jobsite?
            21              A.     No.  We could butt heads.
            22              Q.     It would be Freddie who would be
            23         the one who would give you the best data to
            24         allow you to know what skills to have
            25         available?
                        

              1                           M. Dolphin               77
              2              A. What I did have, and maybe what
              3         he was looking for, I don't know.  I guess
              4         what he's looking for is plain, there's
              5         nothing outstanding; laser and power tool.
              6              Q.     Right.  The reason I ask you, is
              7         this:  Power-activated tool is added by you
              8         two days before this dispatch.  Okay?  You
              9         can look at your job referral history.
             10              A.     I see it.
             11              Q. It was not on your list until you
             12         added it on August 22, 2001, and then this
             13         dispatch comes down with that skill listed.
             14              A.     Yeah.
             15              Q.     Okay?  The question I have is:
             16         Was that as a result of a conversation that
             17         that was a skill you should put down?
             18              A.     It is very possible.   I don't
             19         remember it directly, but at the same time,
             20         these were two skills that were mandatory to
             21         take,  of eight skills we were mandatory to
             22         take.
             23              Q.     I'm not challenging that.  But
             24         when you add to that, the timing of your
             25         adding it on a particular date and it being
                         

             1                          M. Dolphin                78
             2         requested by the company, in order to get you
             3         to a company that you have routinely worked
             4         at, there's at least an implication, in my
             5         mind, that there had to be some coordination.
             6         Would you dispute that?
             7              A.     No, not at all.
             8              Q.     Let's continue here.  How long
             9         was that job, basically, that we just talked
            10         about there at Riverside Boulevard; how long
            11         did that last?
            12              A.     It lasted -- it probably lasted a
            13         year, went to 2002.
            14              Q.     Then I see you go back --  so
            15         after that job ended, what did you do after
            16          that?
            17              A.     I went to college.
            18              Q.     Great.  Just tell me, because I
            19          see you working for Prince through November,
            20          2002.
            21              A.     Right.
            22              Q.     What happened to your carpentry
            23          profession at that time? Again, there's
            24          nothing wrong, I just don't know where you
            25          were from November 2002 unti