UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Plaintiff,

90 CIV 5722 -against-   (CSH)

DISTRICT COUNCIL OF NEW YORK CITY AND VICINITY OF THE UNITED

BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND JOINERS OF AMERICA, et.al.,

Defendants.

x

Independent Investigator Deposition

January 10, 2005 4:45 o'clock p.m.

CONT'D DEPOSITION of ALEX FREDERICK, taken by the Independent Investigator, Walter Mack, Esq., pursuant to letter subpoena, at the offices of Doar, Rieck & Mack, Esqs., 217

Broadway, 7th Floor, New York, New York

10007-2911, before Stewart Nissenbaum, a Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New York.

RECEIVED

JAN 2 4 2005

DOAR RIECK & MACK

Via UPS

1   Alex Frederick   184

2   there a discussion about that?

3   A   No.   Basically, you know your

4   role when you start getting cash.

5   Q   Explain to me the role, explain

6   to the judge, that role. I have a pretty

7   good idea of the role; I don't know if the

8   judge does.

9   A   Again, when you start cash, you

10   just keep your mouth closed, if anybody asks

11   are you working there.

12   Q   What happens if you say, hey,

13   wait a minute, here, I'm supposed to be paid

14   my benefits, I'm a union carpenter, I'm

15   working in this jurisdiction, I have to be

16   paid my wages; what happens if you do that?

17   A   I don't know. I guess you get

18   penalized. Where's the next job?

19   Q   Explain to the judge what you

20   mean by that. Does it mean that if you --

21   A   I figure if you come out, express

22   that to someone --

23   Q   To a business agent?

24   A   To a business agent, where does

25   that leave you, working-wise?

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1   Alex Frederick   185

2   Q   Where does it leave you?

3   A   don't know. I didn't want to

4   take that chance and find out.

5   Q   Were you concerned that you would

6   lose your job, would that be a fair

7   statement?

8   A   I was concerned about being out

9   of work.

10   Q   Okay.

11   A   Not only losing my job there.

12   Where's the next work?

13   Q   Why are you worried about the

14   next work? Go to a different contractor; get

15   another job.

16   A   It is not that easy.

17   Q   I know that.

18   Explain it to the judge, why it

19   isn't that easy.

20   A   You have to go on the out-of-work

21   list; you might be 500.

22   Q   What happens when you got on the

23   out-of-work list?

24   A   They call you. It wasn't that

25   busy. You heard about the list?

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1   Alex Frederick   186

2   Q   I know quite a bit about the

3   list. I want to hear it from you.

4   A   You hear about the list, and guys

5   come on the job and say how long they be on

6   the list. At that time, there was a lot of

7   job shortage, it wasn't that busy then.

8   Where would that leave me, as an individual?

9   I would be out a couple of dollars for a

10   week. It may not be the right couple of

11   dollars, but I was hanging in until the ship

12   turned.

13   Q   And the ship turned?

14   A   Yeah.

15   Q   It did; big time.

16   Let me ask you this: There came

17   a time when you received a notice from me

18   that you had to come in; right?

19   A   Yes.

20   Q   When you got that notice, back

21   in, I think it was May of 2004, there were a

22   lot of other people on the job that got the

23   notice. Did you talk about how to deal with

24   that?

25   A   It was only one individual and me

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