MR. LUSKIN: GEB Attorney calls Arthur Coia.
(WHEREUPON, the witness was duly sworn.)
ARTHUR COIA, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Mr. Coia, could you state your full name for the record, please?
A: Arthur A. Coia.
Q: Do you hold a position with the Laborers' Union, sir?
Page 1053 - Page 1056
A: Yes. I do.
Q: What is that?
A: General President.
Q: How long have you held that position?
A: Approximately two years.
Q: And before that, have you been affiliated with the Laborers' Union?
A: Yes. I joined the Laborers in 1957.
Q: So you have been a member for almost 40 years?
A: And I've had, I've held various office positions, from local union, District Council, International representative, regional manager, General secretary/treasurer, and now General President.
Q: And your father is also Arthur Coia, is that right?
A: Yes. Arthur E. Coia.
Q: He is deceased now, is that right.?
A: Yes.
Q: Was he also affiliated with the Laborers' Union?
A: Yes. He was affiliated from 1933 until his passing in 1993; 60 years.
Q: Mr. Coia, when did you first hear of John Serpico?
A: 1984.
Q: What was the context, sir?
A: He was just put on the Executive Board of the Laborers' Union
Q: Have you ever heard of him before that?
A: No.
Q: Who put him on the General Executive Board?
A: He was elected to the Board in 1984.
Q: Who was the General President in1984?
A: Angelo Fosco.
Q: And do you know whether MR. Serpico was elected at convention or was he elected by the General Executive Board?
A: He was elected by the General Executive Board in 1984.
Q: Who nominated him for that position?
A: I'm not sure.
Q: Would it normally be the prerogative of the General President to make a nomination to fill a vacancy on the G.E.B.?
A: Yes.
Q: When did you hear about Mr. Serpico next, after 1984, when you heard that he had become a vice president of LIUNA
A: 1985, when he testified before the President's Commission on Organized Crime
Q: What do you recall hearing about his testimony before the President's Commission on Organized Crime?
A: Allegations of ties to Mob figures in Chicago.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: What were you at the time Mr. Coia? What position did you hold in the union at the time?
THE WITNESS: I was an International representative. ;
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Working out of?
THE WITNESS: New England region.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Now, in 1985. when you heard the allegations that Mr. Serpico was associated with organized crime did you personally have any way of knowing one way or another whether those allegations were true?
A: No. I didn't formulate any determination of whether they were true or false.
Q: And you had no personal information about him at that time?
A: No, I did not.
Q: Now, over the nest four years, what contact, if any, did you have with Mr. Serpico?
A: Well in 1986 convention, which was held in Miami, and then from there, probably two or three times a year up through 1989 at either Executive Board meeting or meetings, or a conference.
Q: And you weren't a member of the General Executive Board then, were you?
A: No.
Q: How would you come to attend General Executive Board meetings?
A: I attended the Board meetings, I accompanied my father, that was from 1987 through 1989.
Q: And your father was a member of the General Executive Board,
A: Yes. He was a General secretary/treasurer.
Q: Did there come a time when you wanted to succeed your father to the General Executive Board?
A: Yes.
:Q: When was that? Mr. Coia?
A That was in 1989. My father was seriously ill. For his benefit and the health reasons. I thought it would be best if he would retire and enjoy some years that he had. And I thought that I would like to get on the Board myself.
Q: And what did you do about the possibility of succeeding your father?
A: I contacted the General President Angelo Fosco.
Q: And when was this as best you can recall?
A: Either in the later part of December of 1988, or the first week in January of 89 in that vicinity, in that time frame.
Q: Did you call him on the telephone or did you come visit him personally?
A: I spoke to - I called him on the phone and asked, that my father was ill ,was thinking of retiring and I wanted to speak with him. So I went to Washington and spoke with. him personally.
Q: What do you recall - how long between this phone call did you come to Washington to meet with Mr. Fosco?
A: A couple of day, later.
Q: Tell me what you can recall about the :meeting in Washington, what you said to Mr. Fosco, what he said to you.
MR. LYDON: Can we have a foundation as to who else was present.?
BY MR. LUSKIN:
a: Was anyone else present at this meeting with Mr. Fosco?
A: W hen I met-
Q: When you met with him in Washington
A: No; just myself and Angelo Fosco.
Q: Okay. Can you recall what was said at that meeting?
A: Yes. I explained to him that my father was sick, wanted to retire and that I would like to come on the Board.
C: What did Mr. Fosco say in response?
A: He said that, well, he as generally supportive of that position. He acknowledged the work that I had been doing in New England. He said but he would like me to contact John Serpico. I want you to talk to him and I'll talk to some other Board members myself.
Q: And did Or. Fosco identify anyone other than Mr. Serpico that he wanted you talk to?
A: No. He said he wanted me to, he said, call John Serpico and then you can get back to me.
Q: And did you in fact after- was there anything else said at this meeting that you can recall by you or Mr. Fosco?
A: Well I thanked him for his position of support .And that was basically it. That was basically it.
Q: Was the idea, to be clear, that you would become the General secretary/treasurer and not simply vice president.
A: I expressed to him that I wanted to succeed my father in his role as General secretary/treasurer.
Q: And he was he supportive of that?
A: Yes.
Q Now, did you in fact call John Serpico as Mr. Fosco recommended?
A: Yes.
Q: How long after your meeting with Mr. Fosco did you all Mr. Serpico?
A: It could have been the same day or the next day. It was very close timewise.
Q: What do you recall about that telephone conversation? What did you say to Mr. Serpico?
A: I told him that I had spoken to Angelo, that my father had wanted to retire, he was sick, and I wanted to succeed him, and Angelo told me to call him. And then John said he would get back to me. He called me two or three days later, and told me to come to Chicago.
Q: Can you recall anything else about either of those two conversations?
A: No. We made a date to meet in Chicago. And I came in to O' Hare Airport and met John there
Q: Did you know what the purpose of the meeting in Chicago was to be?
A: He just told me over the phone that he wanted to see me in Chicago, and I came..
Q: Based on that conversation did you know where you would be meeting or who you might be meeting other than Mr. Serpico?
A: No.
Q: You say you did go to Chicago?
A: Yes.
Q: How long after this second phone conversation did you travel to Chicago?
A: Probably two days, three days after that.
Q: Plane lands in Chicago you get off the plane. What happens next?
A: John meets me at the gate where I came in. the jet way. And from there -
Q: Was he by himself? I'm sorry. Was Mr. Serpico by himself when he met you at the gate?
A: Yes.
Q. What happened next?
A: Well then we walked from the gate through the airport, then we stopped at an area where there was a little coffee shop. And he said I want you to meet a friend of mine.
Q: You were still in the airport?'
A: Yes in the airport area, the concourse area.
Q: And what happened next?
A: He said to me I want to - I want you to meet a friend of mine and he is sitting over there: and brought me over to this person.
Q:: And was this a person you recognized.?
A: No.
Q: Were you introduced to this person?
A: Yes.
Q: Who did Mr. Serpico tell you is the person you were meeting.?
A: Vincent Solano.
Q: Can you tell me what happened next?
A: I went over to the table and he introduced me and at that point Solano told me to sit down and told John to leave us alone and to walk over to another area.
Q: Did Mr. Serpico in fact leave you and Mr. Solano alone?
A: Yes, he did.
Q Did he disappear completely from sight or did he stay in this coffee area?
A: No. He was in the coffee area but out of hearing lengths
Q: What happened next?
A: Well. I sat down. and Solano asked me how my father was. He said, I understand he's ill and I understand also that you are coming on the Board. And I said yes. Then he said to me I want you to understand this, that John Serpico will be the next General President of this union. He pounded on the table and pointed over. He says, we're grooming that man there to be the next General President. He said it quite emphatically and -
Q: What else, if anything ,did he say to you?
A: That was about it really.
Q: What was his manner in this conversation?
A: Well his demeanor and manner was forceful. He told me. He was emphatic about it. And it was a statement that he made to me. And I didn't answer it.
Q: Did he indicate to you in any manner why and I think his words were Mr. Serpico, we are grooming Mr. Serpico to be the next president? Did he explain why at all?
A: No, he didn't say why. It was forceful. It was not in a position of - it was a position of telling me. There was no reasons or answers or questions to be delivered at that point.
Q And did he indicate who "we were?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Who's we?
MR. LUSKIN: "We".
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Oh the term .'we.' I'm sorry.
MR. LUSKIN: Yes.
BY THE WITNESS
A: I understood it to mean it wasn't union politicking that we were talking about here. I had heard of Solano through the organized crime committee's reports. The whole thing which I indicated earlier came to be a reality in a sense ,with Serpico and Solano, and me sitting there. And the rumor issue became a reality.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Now, what if anything did you say in response to what Mr. Solano said to you.?
A: I didn't say anything in response. As a matter of fact, at that point, he called John back to the table, and may have talked about the weather very casually; really got out of there. That was it. He dismissed the both of us. We got up and we left.
Q: How long in total did you spend sitting with Mr. Solano privately?
A: About five minutes.
Q : And what happened after that.?
A: Well he got up. We left, said good-bye. And I went to the - or John and I left .And we went to the ticket counter. I got a ticket back to go to Rhode Island.
Q: Now how long were you in Chicago total?
A: Probably an hour and a half to two hours. I mean. by the time I got a ticket back and got the next plane back.
Q Now did you and Sir. Serpico have any conversation at all about your succeeding your father to the Board while you were there in Chicago?
A: No, not really. He inquired again about the health of my father and basically he would get some support of other Board members, told me to get some support from Board members, and he would get back to Angelo.
Q: Now based on the circumstances of this meeting at O'Hare Airport here in Chicago, did you form an understanding of who was in control of the circumstances?
A: Yes I did.
Q: And what was that based on.?
A: Based on the way it as presented to me. The way he told John to leave the table, to leave us alone, the way he called him back, that this his show. I'm talking about Solano. The way he got up abruptly, it wasn't like, you know, thank you Mr. Coia for being here and any niceties. It was, okay time's up ,and the show is over.
Q: Did you know what position Mr. Solano held within the union at that time?
A: I'm not sure if I knew at that time. but I'd have to say he was either a president or business manager of one of the locals in Chicago.
Q: And Mr. Serpico was an International vice-president?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you have any doubt at all about who was in control of the situation?
A: Not the way it came down, no.
Q: Did you also reach an understanding about the purpose of this trip to Chicago which you just made?
A: I was brought into this meeting to tell me that, here I'm coming on the Board and John Serpico will be the next president
Q: And did you form an understanding of what Mr. Solano meant when he said that we, or Chicago, were grooming Mr. Serpico to be the next president., `
A: I understood that the scenario that developed ,again, the demeanor, the emphasis that was placed on the words, the rumor of the organized crime committee report ,the whole thing became a reality. It was something- I don't know- like out of the movies. That is what I would have to describe it as.
Q: When you say the rumors became reality, what conclusion did you draw about what had just happened?
A That I was told that he was going to be the next General President. That's the way it was. It was a matter of fact; and that the issues that developed out of that Crime Commission was a reality, that this group of people were controlling the show.
Q: And did you form a conclusion based on that meeting about whether Mr. Fosco was aware of the circumstances that you encountered in Chicago?
A: Right. After that meeting I formed a conclusion. He directed me to John Serpico. John' Serpico directed me to Vincent Solano. And I'm going back to Angelo Fosco. So the conclusion that I formed was that the, there was- everyone was aware of this particular meeting but only me, before I got there.
Q Despite the fact that you had come to the conclusion that the rumor about Mob influence in LIUNA was a reality ,as you put it, did you decide nevertheless to go ahead and try to assume a seat on the General Executive Board?
A: Yes I did.
Q: Would you tell me why?
A: Well I came to the conclusion that there were a lot of good people in the union, that there may have been some bad apples here and there but generally speaking, there were a lot of good people and a lot of good people on that Board. And the union should go forward to do what it was supposed to do in good ,which in most instances it was
Q. And did you form any kind of strategy about how you were going to pursue that goal?
A: Well not then. I didn't form any strategy. My next - I had to in fact get elected.
Q: Let me stop you then, and ask you what happened next. Let's try and get back on track here. Were you subsequently elected to be General secretary/treasurer?
A: Yes. A couple weeks later, maybe two or three weeks later. The Board met in Florida. My father submitted his letter of retirement. And the Board elected me unanimously. That was on February 11 or 12 of '89.
Q: On becoming General secretary/treasurer - let me stop you for a second, and ask you if you can describe for me the duties of the General secretary/treasurer of LIUNA
A: Well, they are limited. They basically handled the books and records and monitoring the financial issues. The general day-to day operation of the union were in the powers of the authority of the General President. General secretary/treasurer monitored the investment of the union, auditing program. So they were limited to the financial transactions, I'd have to say.
Q: Now you testified a minute ago that based on this meeting in Chicago, you got the word from Mr. Solano, you formed the opinion that the allegations about Mob control of LIUNA were essentially true, is that right?
A: Well there were a lot of good people in LIUNA. Mob control at the General President level, yes.
Q: Well, and my question is, what if anything on becoming General secretary/treasurer did you do about that?
A: Well, I did a lot. I did a lot, especially from 1989 to the middle of 1992.I first went down to Washington and got a picture of the - or lay of the land, as we would say, structure of how International headquarter was laid out. people, departments, how they ran; developed a program on some of the things that I thought were, could make the organization more efficient, spoke to Angelo Fosco about that. I developed or analyzed the regional office structures, specific regions in particular, brought forward some new innovative programs that make the union more open, especially in labor management and training and education, health and safety. I also hat to direct certain priorities, to have the members more informed and communicate better with them, make the membership and the regions and the district councils more aware of what my abilities were. I was younger then, you know, back around 1989; had to develop a certain level of respect for the - from the people at headquarters, department heads, certain level of respect from the people in the field. , And in that time and in that process, I paid close attention to the individuals that were employed by us in the field, our International representatives, and also the regional offices.
Q: Let me stop you there.
A: I made -
Q: Sorry.
A: You know why? Because this is a process that developed from '89 to '92.I did that, and at the same rime tried to develop a respectful and energetic rapport with the General Executive Board. It was, almost tried to politic, because I just, I mentioned to you this 1989 meeting, and either myself or someone else on that Board had to be put in the position of assuming the General President's role, because we, "we" meaning the union, the members, could not afford to have anyone that was outlined in that Commission's report head this organization. We had a cloud on the organization for a long time, very long time. And that hampered our organizing efforts. That hampered our collective bargaining issues. It hampered our abilities to get federal grants, So we needed someone in a General President's role that could carry that message forward, and not be hampered by a cloud of suspicion, and dealing with organized come figures or undesirables. That could not be. So I set out for a program to make the Union better in one respect, and to politic, so that in the event Fosco retired, or decided not to run again, that someone, either my or someone else would be in position to assume the President's role, and not John Serpico.
Q: Now, during this time period, 1989, 1990, when you first got down there as General Secretary/treasurer, did you have relatively close contact with Mr. Fosco?
A: I did.
a: Did you ever raise with Mr. Fosco the concerns you had about organized crime influence?
A: I did. I told -
Q Tell me when it happened.
A: I told him that this organization has been under a cloud for a long time.
Q When did this conversation tactic place?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Can you tell us approximately when this first came up?
THE WITNESS: Well, I first of all got my feet implanted in the position as General Secretary/treasurer. When I got there, my first conversations with him about trying to develop new programs, new structure, ways of minimizing any undesirable effort on this union, probably six months into the office. I pointed out to him that a better updating or better auditing updating system should be put into place; a compliance program. I learned that there were people in the field that were doing two jobs, where they weren't able to handle one, getting paid for two. I brought this out to him. And I also discovered in that period that Mr. Serpico was assistant to the General President. I wasn't aware of that before. And I told him that, you should make an effort to put someone else in that position, someone like Jim Norwood or a Lou Ellysie or a Carl Booker.
Q:: When did that conversation take place, as best you can recall? Let's just focus on that conversation.
MR. LYDON: And who else was present?
MR. LUSKIN: Well. I'll ask it. Thank you.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q When does it the place?
A: Well, I had a number of conversations with him. The first conversation -
Q: When was the first conversation?,
A: - dealing -
Q:: About Mr. Serpico being - your concerns about Mr. Serpico being special assistant to the President ,.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Roughly the period. roughly.
BY THE WITNESS:
A: Probably four months later, which would be four months from February.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Was anybody else present when you were talking to Mr. Fosco?
A: No, not then.
Q: What did you say to him?
A: I said to him. I didn't realize that John was the assistant to the General President,
Q And when did that take place.?
A: And he told me that that was around 1987 or 1988, in that time frame. Well, I said, why did that take place? Because you know what developed in the Commission's report. You know what the problem is in Chicago. Why did you allow this to happen.? You are only , putting us under a cloud more by doing this.
Q: What did he say in response?
A: He said, well, it had to be like that.
Q: Did he explain?
A: No.
Q: - why it had to be?
A: No. And I didn't go into it any more either at that time.
Q: Now, in these first several months, were there any other matters related to the possibility of organized crime influence that you raised with Mr. Fosco?
A: Well, as I was going through and developing the regions or reviewing the regions, we pointed out there was special International representatives, which are part timers.
Q: Let me stop you and ask, are those International positions, people paid by the International?
A: Yes.
Q:: Go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
A: I'm sorry. I lost my -
Q: I asked you, you were starting to tell me that you found that there were positions, part-time positions called special International representatives.
A: Right. They were special International representatives, which we, which were classified as part timers. There were no records of any activity being developed. I told him, I said, these people are basically no-shows. How do you allow this to happen?
Q: Who were these people, And where were these people?
A: Well. the time, we are into the end of 89. Frank Caruso was one. And I believe another one was Palermo, Palermo. As time went on, others were hired and the same problem or the same conversations I had with him.
Q: Okay. But focusing on these first two, Palermo and Caruso, did you believe these to be no-show jobs?
A: I did. yes.
Q: What did you say, if anything, to Mr. Fosco?
A: I told him, how come they are on our payroll?
Q: Was anyone present when you raised this with him?
A: No.
Q: Anyone else present?
A: No.
Q: What did he say in response?
A: He may have been silent. I'm not even sure he gave a response to it. It is tough to really remember that
Q: Did you raise this issue with him on more than one occasion?'
A: In 1992, on the no-shows, again, after the convention, at that time, there was another individual put on without me even knowing it, which was John Matassa. And I told him then, how come this fellow is, you just put him on, when it doesn't have the right appearance? If they are not doing anything, this is wrong. He said. well, I was told to put him on.
Q: Did he tell you who told him to put him on?
A: No.
Q: Are Mr. Palermo, Mr. Caruso and Mr. Matassa all from Chicago?
A: Yes, yes.
a: Now, moving ahead to 1991, the next convention, after that, when is the next time, if at all, that the subject of Mr. Serpico possibly succeeding Mr. Fosco came up, that you can recall?
A: Right after the convention; well, the first part of 1992.The convention was in September of '91. So first part of '92.Angelo started to talk about retiring, and just casually talking about it. And then the subject really blew up in the middle of '92, when one day I was in the office, and Carl Booker come to speak with me, and said that -
MR. LYDON: Can we just stop here and get a foundation for this conversation, as to who was present,
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Give us an idea of where it is, and roughly what time.
MR. LUSKIN: Sure.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q:: Let me ask you, where did this conversation take place, Mr. Coia?
A: In my office; he came down or came up from his office.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: This is in D.C., sir?
THE WITNESS: This is in Washington, yes.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: In the headquarter of LIUNA in Washington?
A: Yes. My office was on the seventh floor. He came to my office, and said to me that Mary, which was-
MR. LYDON: Is there embody else present.?
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Is there anybody else present?
A: Carl Booker and myself.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Mr. Coia, who is Carl Booker?
THE WITNESS: Carl Booker?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: What was his position at the time?
THE WITNESS: He was director of jurisdiction.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q:: Did Mr. Booker also function in a de facto capacity as an assistant to Mr. Fosco?
A: He wasn't - there was no formal title. His formal title was director of jurisdiction. But he helped him
Q: But were those responsibilities that he actually exercised?
A: Did that and he had an assistant by the name of Steven Hammond. So Carl's real job was to answer the mail for Angelo and work with Angelo.
Q: I'm sorry. I broke your train here to establish this foundation, but we have to do it. Mr. Booker came to your office on the seventh floor at headquarters in-
A: That is what I said. I don't know if he came down, because he may have been upstairs with Angelo, which is, his office was on the eighth floor. Or he may have been in his office on the fifth. I'm not sure.
Q: He came to your office?
A: He came to my office. He came up or he came down.
Q: He ended up in your office is that fair?
A: He came to my office yes. And he said to me that Mary, Mary Devella, which was Angelo Fosco's secretary was very upset and may have even been crying, because Angelo told her that he was retiring and that she had to leave also; further went on and said that the reason is that he told Mary that John Serpico would be replacing him as president, and he would be taking his secretary, or people down to take her job.
Q: Is that all that happened in this conversation?
A: That's basically it, yeah. So I immediate -
Q: What did you do?
A: I was very disturbed over it because I had had these conversations with Angelo. He knew my feelings. He knew what the problem was. So I went upstairs, spoke to Mary and said that, did he just tell you -
Q: Was anybody - let me stop you. Was anybody else present?
A: May have been Carl. I'm not sure. But I stormed upstairs, went in to see Mary; did he tell you that he was retiring, and John was replacing him?
Q: What did she say?
A: She said yes.
Q: What did you do next?
A: And he is taking some people down from Chicago? She said yes. I went in to see him at that point and closed the door and started yelling at him
Q: Was anybody else present?
A: It was just me and him. Maybe Mary heard it - I'm not sure - because her office is right outside. But I was yelling at him
Q: What were you yelling about.?
A: That this is - first of all, I asked him did you tell her that you were retiring, and that John was replacing you., He said yes. Then I said you know the problems that this union has had in the past, you know the problems you personally went through back in 1980; how can you allow, even think of bringing John Serpico and replacing you in this position?
Q: Let me stop you for a second here. What problem, in 1980 were you referring to?
A: There were accusations and allegations and ultimately indictment on Angelo that he had been controlled by the Mob in Chicago.
Q: Okay.
A: So I said, with all these problems that you had and this union has had .you cannot do this. Do me a favor I said to him, stay in your job. I'll do your work. I'm not going to get into this. He says, well, I can't really do that because I have no one to turn to in Chicago anymore. I said, well, what are you talking about? He said, well, Vincent Solano is dead now. I said, well, I didn't even know that. That was the first time I had heard that. So he had said, well, he is dead. I have no one to turn to. I said, look: just stay here and I'll do the work for you.
Q: Did you underhand, did you have an understanding about what Mr. Fosco meant when he said to you, Vincent Solano is dead I have nobody to turn to?
A: Right
Q: What did you understand that to mean?
A: That his contact man, Solano, was no longer around, and he had no one to turn to, and someone else was calling the shots, which he did not have a friendly relationship with,
Q: Contact with whom?'
A: The Mob.
Q: Was he referring, you think, to the District Council or the local unions in Chicago?
A: No, no, no.
Q: What else, if anything, did you say in this conversation?
A: That was, I said we have done so much, I've tried to do so much in the union, and here you are, trying to take it down, and I'm not going to stand for it. As a matter of fact, if that is, and you can convince the Board to have him succeed you, I will quit. And I will take the key people in this organization in this building back to New England with me. And that was a seeking out people like Carl Booker or Steve Hammond, people that made the operation run effectively. And that was the end of the conversation at that point.
Q: Is that everything you can recall that you said or he said?
A: I think so. He just sat there and listened to me. I was very upset with him. I was banging the table. I said this, you can't do this. You can't do this to these people. You can' t do it to people like Booker and Ellysie and Hammond and the rest of the people down there. You just can't.
Q: And apart from his comment about Mr. Solano being dead, did he say anything in response to this?
A: No, no.
Q Now after you left his office that day, did you form some sort of strategy or plan about how you were going to deal with the threat that Mr. Fosco would retire and designate Mr. Serpico as his successor?
A: Well, I'd have to reach out now to the Board, and subtly. I didn't tell anybody what happened, the way it happened I said that he is anticipating retiring and what their position would be, subtly. But about a month or two, month after that, he got sick: Angelo Fosco got sick, might have been a month or two after that And I had learned from the family that he was very sick, very sick. There was rumors around that he may not ever come back to the office again; he was that ill. At that point -
Q Did that lead you to believe that things might be imminent in terms of his succession?
A: Yes. I stepped up the politicking issue. I informed the Board that he was very ill. I didn't want to make anybody panic over it. But I started the - I had to tell them also, because I didn't want anyone to pull any rugs out from under anyone. So it was a process of him or his health deteriorating; that's it.
Q: And you say this is - when was this in time, just so we are clear on the sequence?
A: .November.
Q: Of 1992?
A: '92, yes. November.
Q: What happened next, if you recall?
A: Well, I was getting reports or rumors, whatever, statements back from Chicago on the condition of his health, both from the family and others.
Q: What were those reports?
A: That he was doing poorly, very poor.
Q: What else did you hear, if anything.?
A: That he we going into the hospital. He was at one time in a coma. I also heard that John Matassa and John Serpico were going to the house.
MR. LYDON: I'll object. unless we have some foundation for this as well. Even though it is hearsay, we ought to know where, when, who was present
MR. LUSKIN: I'll try and connect up the dots
MR. LYDON: Wait. It is better than connecting up the dots. I'm asking for a foundation. He is starting to relate a conversation that he heard. Where did he hear? Who was present?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I think that's fair. I think it is fair to describe it, in what fashion he heard. We can certainly hear hearsay, if it is third-party, rumors, so forth, at least identify where it came from.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: With respect to what you are about to start telling me and start to say something about Mr. Matassa and Mr. Serpico. whom did you hear those reports from?
A: Well, Carl Booker had a close relationship with the family. So Marie Fosco was relating as to his health condition to Carl, and as to visitors. I had gotten information back also from Bruce Monaco, not to me directly, through either John LeConche. who was a training director for Laborers/AGC and Lou Ellysie.
Q. Who is Mr. Ellysie?
A: Lou Ellysie was a head of a department down in Washington. He was head of contractual maintenance department.
Q: Tell us who Bruce Monaco is, by the way.
A: Bruce Monaco is Angelo's or was Angelo's stepson. Now, I don't know. I heard that they were going there. I don't know the amounts of time, how often.
MR. LYDON: He heard this from all of these people?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. LYDON: Or who specifically here?
MR. LUSKIN: Let me ask a question.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Direct him and have him delineate, if he knows.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: First, what did you hear from Mr. Booker, from Marie Fosco though Mr. Booker, about -
A: You have to understand, these people are very concerned, not only of the health of Anglo Fosco, but they were concerned about the future of the union. Carl Booker -
MR. LYDON: I object to that. This is not responsive to the question. I can't just let him narrate here.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I understand that.
BY THE WITNESS:
A: But people
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: He has to give a little bit of background as to the, as I understand it, the person's health is deteriorating, and he is getting reports. It is in this context I think he is giving this. Now, without going into something elaborate, could you direct it, so we can get to transmission of the information?
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Sure. What were you hearing, first focusing on Mr. Booker, what were you hearing back from Mr. Booker that he related to you that he was hearing from Marie Fosco, Mr. Fosco's wife? What did you hear?
A: He would talk to her daily, to find out Angelo's condition. And he would report it to me, because in a sense, I was running the union in that position. I had to know where, what condition he was in. I had to know that. And he would report back to me.
Q: And apart from Mr. Fosco's health, what else did you hear from Mr. Booker?
A: That John Matasssa and John Serpico were visiting him often. And that concerned me.
Q: Why did it concern you?
A: Based upon Angelo's statement a few months earlier, and based upon the 1989 airport meeting, it concerned me.
Q: Now, did you hear- now, focusing on what you heard from Mr. Monaco, through Mr. LeConche or Mr. Ellysie, were you hearing similar reports from them to what you heard back from Mr. Booker?
MR. LYDON: I object to the leading. You can have him relate what he heard from these people.
BY THE WITNESS:
A: Well, it wasn't similar really. It wasn't similar.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: What did you hear?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: What did you hear? Just differentiate, what did you hear from Monaco? What did you hear from LeConche?
MR. LUSKIN: I think he said Monaco was a source, and that was through either Mr. LeConche or Mr. Ellysie.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Is that correct?
A: Yes. I didn't speak to Monaco personally. Monaco gave updates to LeConche on a few occasions, he gave updates as to health; Ellysie and Mazza also. Mazza was the regional manager in Chicago. He would give me updates as to the condition of Angelo.
Q: And either through Mr. Monaco or from Mazza, did you also hear anything about visits by Mr. Matassa and Mr. Serpico?
A: Yea.
Q : What did you hear?
A: Who said what at what time and how many times, this was a general, general conveyance to me, as to health and as to politicking, that was getting back to me, so that these people know that I knew what was going on.
Q: Did there come a -
A: Some of it wasn't solicited. Some just came in on their own accord.
Q: Did there come a time in this period, November or December of 1992, that you actually went to Chicago yourself?
A: Yes, during Christmastime.
Q: Christmas of '92?
A: I went to see Angelo myself. His condition got somewhat better, somewhat in the sense that he was in the hospital. He wasn't in a severely critical state. But he was in a terminal state. I don't know how to explain that. I'm not a doctor. But he was doing better but not good. I went to see him
Q: He wasn't going to recover, would that be fair?
A: Yes, that's right.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Mr. Coia, who's running the union at this time?
THE WITNESS: Me.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA : Is that by terms of your office succession as General secretary or-
THE WITNESS: No. I assume it - I was running it, I mean but there is no provision in the Constitution at that point.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Political reality, you assumed it.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Had you in fact been assuming a lot of responsibilities of Mr. Fosco in the preceding months?
A: that was okay, because I indicated to him, if he wanted to - do not retire, and I would do his duties for him It just so happens that two months later, he became ill.
Q: So if I understand ,you actually offered to him, if you stay on, I'll do the job?
A: Yes, that's right. So I went to, I was in- I came to Chicago to visit him in the hospital. It was during Christmastime.
Q: Was anyone else present?'
A: Yes.
Q: Who was present.?
A: .Marie Fosco, and Terry Healy, and I.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Mr. Healy is a union official here in Chicago?
THE WITNESS: Yes. He is the new regional manager in Chicago. He replaced Joe Mazza.
BY THE WITNESS:
A: They were there. And when I got into the room, Angelo excused them. He wanted to talk to me privately. So they left the room And the first thing he said, I want you to know, Arthur, that John is taking over. And in the same breath, Peter Fosco will replace John as vice-president, which is my son, and Terry Healy will be the regional manger. And the amazing thing is, he didn't give me a chance to say, how are you, how are you feeling, how is my family. I mean first thing out of his mouth was, John is taking over.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Did you say anything in response?
A: Yeah, I said, Angelo, you're crazy. You know I will not go along with that. I will not permit it. And as I told you before, if that ever happens. I have to quit. And by the way, I didn't want to upset the man. I said, why don't you concentrate on getting better, and we'll discuss it another time. I stayed there about another 15 minutes, and then I left.
Q: And in the other 15 minutes, did you have any other conversations on this subject matter?
A: No. It would only- it - too emotional. I didn't want to get into that.
Q: Now, focusing on the period of time between Christmas of '92 and the General Executive Board meeting on Mr. Fosco's death, which testimony was established is in early February of 1993, what if anything did you do concerning the question of who would succeed Mr. Fosco as President?
A: I made some telephone calls to Board members, told them his condition was bad; I saw it firsthand. I waited, as time went on, and the whole board came to Washington for the Presidential inauguration, which was I believe the second week in January. I got the whole board there, spoke to them individually, told them that it did not look like Angelo was going to recover, and I would like their support, if in fact he died. It wasn't a question of, if in fact he retired. And they all gave me a commitment.
Q: Did you solicit Mr. Serpico's support.?
A: No.
Q: Is there anybody else on the Board who you didn't approach?
A: Mr. Vinall
Q: Why was that?
A: Well, I thought he was quite friendly with Mr. Serpico. He has been on the Board the longest, and I didn't - I didn't think it was appropriate.
Q: Moving ahead to the G E.B. meetings in February of 1993, did there come a time when you heard that Mr. Fosco was actually going to leave his bed and come down to those meetings?
A: The Executive Board meeting was the second week in February, second week. .And he got out of his bed and got a private plane to come down to Florida. I couldn't believe it. That's what happened.
Q: Why couldn't you believe it?
A: Well, the man was seriously sick. He was blown up. It was, his whole body was distended from fluid. He couldn't pass it. I mean, his organs were breaking down. If you seen a person that is sick with cancer, or kidney failure, that is what happened.
Q: What significance, if any, did you attach to his willingness to get on a plane and fly down to Florida in that condition?
A: My significance?
Q: Yes.
A: He was coming down to gather support from the Board to endorse John Serpico to replace him as president.
Q: What happened next? Did he do that?
A: No, He died on February 11, which was the third or fourth day of our meetings.
Q: When you heard about his death on February l 1, what time of the day was that, Mr. Coia?
A: Approximately 3:00.
Q: What did you do next?
A: Well, we had an office at the Americana, which is like a cabana setup there. And most of the vice-presidents were there. And those that weren't, I sent someone out to get them, and told them that he had died. Most had heard. And I indicated to them that were - we would have an election the next day to replace Angelo.
Q: So did you in fact have a meeting with all the vice president members of the G.E.B. present?
A: Yes, everyone was present, yes: told them that there would be an election the next day. I did that for a couple of reasons. One, I did not want to, I personally did not want to go back to Chicago to have an election after his burial.
O: Why not?
A: There was a whole bunch of problems that happened during Angelo's election in 1975. I don't know if they were true or not. But they were reported, that there was bad politicking going on. And I didn't want that to happen.
Q: What do you mean by bad politicking? How specific can you be here? What happened in 1975?
MR. LYDON: Objection, foundation, as to who he heard this from and when.
BY THE WITNESS:
A: It is bad politicking
HEARING OFFICER VIARA: Time out. There is an objection on the record. What is your objection Mr. Lydon?
MR. LYDON: My objection is one of foundation He is now alluding to a conversation again or it has to be conversation He was asked what he heard, I'd like to know where and when he heard it, from whom, who else was present
BY THE WITNESS:
A: It was in the-
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Just a moment, sir, just a moment.
MR. LUSKIN: We are going about his state of mind here.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: He is talking about his state of mind. He said he doesn't know whether it is true or not. He said it is something he is reacting upon. It is reasonable to as him, what was this, quote, "bad politics," and how did he hear it, to give it some credibility.
MR. LUSKIN: Of course.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I think that ought to be the question. Mr. Lydon wants a foundation, as good as you can give a foundation, because he says it is giving his state of mind.
MR. LUSKIN: I'll furnish as much of a foundation as the witness can.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Along those lines.
MR. LUSKIN: Sure.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Rephrase your questions.
MR. LUSKIN: Fine, that's fine.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I have a question. When you finish this particular conversation - it is about 20 after 12, we are going to go the rest of the afternoon - can we finish this conversation and take a break? Is that all right?
MR. LYDON: Fine.
MR. LUSKIN: That is fine.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Finish this little scenario about his state of mind, what he heard. Then we will break for about half an hour. I mean an hour, okay?
MR. LUSKIN: Okay.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Mr. Coia, when you talk about bad politics that you associated with Chicago and the election of Angelo Fosco, what do you mean?
A: That was reported-that there was some Mob influence in the President's Commission on Organized Crime report that that went on in 1975. I don't know if it was true or not. But based upon everything that unfolded from me from 1989 to 1992. I